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Krista is a master certified life coach, post-traumatic growth and grief expert, widow, mom, and host of The Widowed Mom Podcast. She never anticipated grief and post-traumatic growth being a part of her life until her husband died when she was 40, but through her traumatic experience and spousal loss, she was able to personally transform so much on her own. In 2017, she quit her corporate job and became certified as a coach. In her work, she’s guiding others in moving through sex after loss, post-traumatic growth, and dealing with grief.

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EPISODE 222: Krista St-Germain

[Fun, Empowering Music] 

Amanda Testa: Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a sex, love, and relationship coach, and in this podcast, my guests and I talk sex, love, and relationships, and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to the podcast. Today, we are going to be talking about post-traumatic growth and sex after loss, and I am really looking forward to talking with Krista St-Germain. She is a master certified life coach, post-traumatic growth and grief expert, widow, mom, and host of The Widowed Mom Podcast, and so, we are gonna dive into, really, how you can move into healing from deep loss and kind of talk about some myths around sex and grief. Krista’s gonna demystify some of those lies that widows have been told about their sex lives and grief and how to support yourself and get the support you need. So welcome, Krista. Thank you for being here today.

0:01:04

Krista St-Germain: Thanks so much for having me. Not everybody wants to talk about grief but me, so I’m glad to be here.

Amanda Testa: Well, you know, I appreciate it because, you know, I think that it’s a very important thing to talk about, right?

Krista St-Germain: I agree.

Amanda Testa: And so, I really appreciate all that you're sharing, and I ‘d love if you wouldn't mind just sharing a little bit about your story and what led you to be so passionate about what you're doing.

Krista St-Germain: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, grief and post-traumatic growth are never things that I ever really anticipated being a part of my life until my husband died. I really wasn't planning on it, but I was 40 years old, and it was my second marriage. He was kind of my redemption story. The first marriage did not end as well as one might hope, and he was just kind of proof that it actually can be amazing. He was amazing. We were coming home from a trip. We had driven separately. I had a flat tire on my car, and I pulled over on the shoulder of the interstate, and being the stubborn engineer that he was, he did not want to wait for AAA to change my tire. He’s like, “Maybe I can change your tire. It’s not a problem. You know, it’ll take less time.” 

0:02:04

And so, he was trying to get into my trunk to get access to the tire, and a driver (who we later found out had meth and alcohol in his system) did not see us, did not brake, crashed into the back of Hugo’s Durango and trapped him in between his car and mine, and so, in less than 24 hours, my perfect, I-love-my-life was just completely evaporated.

So, as one does, I went back to therapy immediately, and that was really helpful to me in terms of being able to tell my story and kind of come to peace in my own brain that it wasn't just a terrible nightmare and that it really had happened. I got back to that functioning place but was also feeling kind of hollow and robotic and really worried that my best days were behind me, right, and I should probably just be grateful for what I had because it probably wasn't ever gonna be that good. I think I just happened into the exact right program at the exact time I needed it which was a life coaching program. It was so powerful for me that I decided people need to know this stuff, right? 

0:03:07

People need these tools. I mean, you get it, right, ‘cause we’re in the same line of work. We get it. 

Yeah, and so, I just kind of transformed so much in my own way of living and seeing the world that I decided this was what I wanted to do. That was in 2017, and I quit my corporate job and certified as a coach, and I’ve been coaching widows ever since so here we are.

Amanda Testa: Yes, well, first of all, I really appreciate you sharing your story, and I’m very sorry for your loss.

Krista St-Germain: Well, thank you. Yeah, thank you.

Amanda Testa: I can only imagine, you know, the road that you've been on and the healing journey.

Krista St-Germain: Yeah.

Amanda Testa: I think that being able to help others in your situation, you probably have learned a lot around sex and grief and just in general how you move forward. You know, I think from what I’ve heard from people that have experienced a deep loss, it can be really challenging. Some people find their way back, and some people don't, and so, I’m wondering for you, well, what do you think has been the most supportive thing that you've done to move forward?

0:04:06

Krista St-Germain: You know, I think it’s a couple of things, but two kind of jump out. So one is I made the transition from believing that feelings were problems I needed to solve to seeing them as just experiences that I could allow, and I wasn't brought up that way. Not that I had terrible messaging around feelings, but I think I, as most humans, had bought into the idea that happiness is the goal and that when you aren’t feeling happy there’s something wrong and you should fix it.

Amanda Testa: Mm-hmm.

Krista St-Germain: If that’s what you go into grief thinking, that feelings are problems and you're supposed to solve them or that you're wrong for having them, yeah, it results in a lot of suffering, right? So I made that transition. Then, the other major transition that I made was being able to see myself as separate from my own thinking. Before coaching, I was so busy thinking my thoughts that I hadn’t really realized I wasn’t my thoughts, right? 

0:05:02

And so, being able to see myself as the thinker of my thoughts, that’s what allowed me to see thoughts like, “My best days are probably behind me,” right? Instead of experiencing that as a truth, I transitioned into experiencing that as just an optional sentence in my mind that I could pick up or put down and then I could get leverage over it and then I could actually choose to believe if I wanted to, which I did, eventually. It took a while, that, no, my best days could be ahead of me. I could choose to believe that, and those two things, changing my relationship with feelings and changing my relationship with my thinking, were what I needed to create something completely different.

Amanda Testa: Yes, I think both of those things are easier said than done, right?

Krista St-Germain: Oh, no doubt.

Amanda Testa: So it’s all about the work into that.

Krista St-Germain: Yeah, and nobody taught me that until I got to coaching, and I had to do that work. Not only did I have to get coached, but I had to actually practice those skills and learn them, and you're right, it’s not just a switch that we flip.

0:06:00

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Krista St-Germain: Yeah.

Amanda Testa: And I think, too, we talk a lot about relationships and sex on this podcast and really what it takes to feel good and flourish in your sex life, and I think, you know, a lot of times, at least something that I notice, is if people have gone through a trauma that it can be challenging to allow themselves pleasure or to allow themselves to feel good. I’m wondering how you help people navigate that or what you might want to share around that if you would.

Krista St-Germain: Yeah, I think a lot of it is exploring what have we been believing about pleasure, what have we been believing about sex, what are we taught to think about pleasure and sex, and then, of course, mixing in the grief part. So what does it mean to want pleasure or not (want sex or not) about you and grief? Most of what holds people back in that regard, especially my clients who are specifically widows, is just all the judgements and all the worries that they place on what does it mean if their libido is not where they think it should be by now, right? 

0:07:03

Does it mean they don't love their partner enough if they want to have sex? Does it mean they’ll never want to have sex again and something is wrong with them if they aren't interested? We’re told so many unhelpful things. You know, you should wait until you’re not grieving to have sex. What? I mean, first of all, that implies that grief has an end. 

Amanda Testa: Right, right.

Krista St-Germain: Which it doesn't, right?

Amanda Testa: Exactly. [Laughs]

Krista St-Germain: [Laugh] Okay, so, basically, what you're saying is if I ever want to have sex again, I’m wrong and I should wait, or we’re told the only reason you would want sex is if you're trying to escape your grief. Well, that’s not helpful or accurate or, “You're just confused.” It’s fascinating how many times I’ve heard this one. “What you really want is a massage. You just want human touch. You don't actually want sex.” Wait, what, right? Yeah, just so much conditioning that we come to a grief experience with that then shows up and it’s worth looking at.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Krista St-Germain: There’s a lot of it.

Amanda Testa: Right, and, I mean, I know you're also a mom as well, and so, not only is there all that to navigate but also being a mother and being sexual, that’s also a lot of conditioning around that too, right?

0:08:08

Krista St-Germain: Yeah, totally. 

Amanda Testa: [Laughs]

Krista St-Germain: Yeah, yeah, and I think, also, it’s different for every woman that I work with, and I work with women that are all ages, but I notice sometimes, too, there are many that maybe were never with any other person than the one that they lost, and so, there’s a whole bunch of discomfort and new territory that we’ve got to explore, right? Your self-confidence sometimes takes a hit. You start second guessing yourself and doubting yourself. It’s a recipe for a lot of opportunities.

Amanda Testa: Right.

Krista St-Germain: Yeah.

Amanda Testa: I’m wondering what advice you have for women around kind of creating their own path around that or navigating what feels right for them.

Krista St-Germain: Yeah, ultimately, what I help women figure out is, like, nobody else is gonna know what’s best for your life, but you do.

Amanda Testa: Mm-hmm.

Krista St-Germain: Right? What prevents you from living into what’s best for your life is just some garbage in your brain that you picked up like a bad penny, right? 

0:09:04

And so, I don't ever act like I know what’s best for someone’s life. What I see my job is, is helping my client see the garbage in their brain that’s holding them back from their own internal knowing, right, and helping them shine a light on it so they can get some leverage over it, and then we can get it out of the way, and then they can really live into what they know is true for themselves which is different for every person, and it’s not right or wrong or good or bad or superior or inferior. It’s not a moral issue, right? It’s just that we have a way that we want to live our lives, and the only thing that holds us back is just some junk in our brain.

Amanda Testa: Mm-hmm. I think that’s a very loving way to view it as well, right? You have been a lot easier on yourself when you can make that distinction.

Krista St-Germain: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and what’s the benefit of not being easy on yourself? There isn’t one, right, but most of us are pretty good at it.

Amanda Testa: Mm-hmm. Yes.

Krista St-Germain: Yes, for sure.

Amanda Testa: All the internalized misogyny and whatnot that we like to throw at ourselves.

0:10:04

Krista St-Germain: It’s fascinating how much the more I coach, the more I see it. Even things like I was coaching someone last week, and we were talking about how she had gone to her high school senior incoming freshman’s college orientation, and everyone in the room (in her mind) was wearing a wedding ring except for her, and I see this a lot where we have so much conditioning around that it’s better to be partnered, you're supposed to be in a relationship, you can only be happy if you are, that when we lose that, all that conditioning shows up, right? Then, of course, we have all these desires to throw ourselves into new relationships because of that conditioning, and unraveling all of that, yeah, phew, hello, misogyny. Hello, patriarchy. It’s a good time. [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: Right, well, I mean, it’s so interesting because that’s so what we’re taught, right? It’s so what people taught, yeah.

Krista St-Germain: Totally. Yeah, totally. The most important day of our lives is our wedding day, right? 

0:11:01

I mean, what’s it about to be a woman? I mean, yeah, right, but I see it, also, as a good opportunity, right? It’s not exactly the way that people would probably choose to start to sort that stuff out for themselves, but it sure does bring it up, and I think it gives you the ability to really decide, okay, if this was the conditioning that’s showing up in my brain, is it what I want to keep? Is it moving me toward what I want in my life? Is it taking me away from what I want in my life? If the answer is away, then just because stuff appears in my brain doesn't mean I have to keep believing it and letting it fuel me. Then, we start seeing, ah, we’re so much more powerful than we thought, and that’s really fun to be a part of.

Amanda Testa: Definitely. 

Krista St-Germain: Yeah.

Amanda Testa: I think, too, you know, because something that comes up a lot around sex in general is shame, and you talk about, too, there’s a lot of myths that people have heard around sex and grief. Maybe could you share some of those myths that people have been told about sex lives and grief and how they are your recipe for shame and guilt and what to do about that?

0:12:04

Krista St-Germain: Yeah, so, I mean, there’s so much of it, but just to hit a few points, that what you want, in terms of your sex life, has anything to do with your goodness or badness, your intelligence or lack of intelligence, your neediness or confidence -- we draw so many unnecessary conclusions based on what we’re taught to believe about ourselves and how we’re supposed to be. It’s not our desire or lack-of or our sexual behavior or lack-of that causes the problem. It’s our judgment. It’s what we make all of that mean that causes the guilt and causes the shame. It’s when we tell ourselves there’s something wrong with us because we’ve bought into the, “You just want to escape your grief because you can't handle the feelings,” or, “You didn't love your person enough,” or, “It’s too early,” or, “Good girls don't do that,” or, “You should at least wait a year.” Any of that nonsense, when we use it against ourselves, that’s what creates the guilt and the shame, and it’s just unnecessary.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

0:13:05

Krista St-Germain: And then we have these culturally (to me) abhorrent terms like wid-hoe. Have you heard this one?

Amanda Testa: I have not.

Krista St-Germain: I cannot stand it. I know some people think it’s funny, and some people think it’s empowering, and if it’s empowering to you, you go, right? But I’ve just always hated it. A lot of people will go through what they call their “wid-hoe” stage which means that they are having more sex than they were before for some particular reason, and I just guess it bothers me so much because I don't like the idea that we would even consider calling someone a hoe because they're having sex when they want to have sex.

Amanda Testa: [Laughs]

Krista St-Germain: There’s a grown woman, right? Why are we calling her a “hoe?” I know that it’s tongue-in-cheek and some people really do see it as empowering, but, to me, it’s just a sign of all the judgment that exists in the first place about women and their bodies and what they should or shouldn’t be doing with them, and I don't like the idea of feeding into that with a term like “wid-hoe,” but, man, if you ever jump into a widow or widower’s Facebook group, you will see that term left, right, and center. It is everywhere. It’s fascinating to me.

0:14:14

Amanda Testa: Very interesting. Yeah, it is such a double standard.

Krista St-Germain: Right? Yeah, we never do that with men!

Amanda Testa: [Giggles] No!

Krista St-Germain: And the statistics -- I need to look this up and actually get some math behind this, but men remarry and/or date so much faster than widows do, right? Widowers get in new relationships and marry way faster than widows do. I think part of it is just because of the judgment that we have. What we make it mean, that we might have that desire, find someone attractive. Some of the women who are struggling the most are the ones that come to me and they are already dating or in a relationship, and they have so much judgment about themselves for doing that or they fear so much the judgment from others. 

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Krista St-Germain: Yeah, and then that’s largely a product of the way we were socialized.

0:15:02

Amanda Testa: Right, ‘cause I can see how that would come up and just feeling like, well, what does this mean about me and what will people think. All the things that we put in our brains that don't need to be there, but they're easy to put there, right?

Krista St-Germain: Yeah. Yeah, if you think there’s a right or wrong way of doing grief, which (spoiler alert) there is not, right, but if you have bought into this idea that there is a right or a wrong way, then it’s so easy to see why women would say, well, I want sex too much or I don't want sex enough, right? They will see their own belief of “I’m doing it wrong” reflected in all areas of life, including their sex lives.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, right.

Krista St-Germain: ‘Cause that’s what their brain is looking for is evidence of how they're doing it wrong which is impossible.

Amanda Testa: Right. I’m wondering, too, when it comes to -- ‘cause, I mean, I think the thing that is true about grief is people want it to be over or they want to, like, “When will I know that I’m healed from something?” I think, like you say, it’s not a linear path. It does not look the same for anyone. It’s very much a personal journey.

0:16:07

Krista St-Germain: Yeah, and unless we are capable of time travel and we can somehow go backwards in time and make the loss not happen, right, it’s the natural human response to a perceived loss. The loss happened, and we’re always gonna have a response to it, so it’s not gonna be something that has a finish line or an end.

I was even listening to a podcast the other day from a so-called expert, and,  “There’s a beginning and a middle and an end of grief,” and I wanted to reach through my phone and punch him. [Laughs] It’s just perpetuating the untruth, right? Or we only know -- I don't know how much grief interests you or if it’s something you’ve spent much time around, but I didn't know until I started doing my own grief research that there were multiple theories about grief. I had only heard of the five stages of grief (Kubler-Ross and David Kessler), and so, I really thought that I think I’m supposed to be in denial, and then I’m supposed to bargain, and then I’m supposed to get angry, and then depression, and then acceptance, and whatever. 

0:17:08

Just like there are probably many theories about weight loss or whatever, there’s lots of theories about grief, too, and when we only know about one of them, we try to put square pegs in round holes, and it doesn't really help the griever at all, right? Yeah, so there’s so much misinformation. We kind of suck at grief as a culture.

Amanda Testa: Agreed.

Krista St-Germain: That’s okay. We’re fixing it, Amanda.

Amanda Testa: Well, also, too, just in general, the expectation that you just go back to normal after two weeks or whatever, right, or you should move on, yeah.

Krista St-Germain: Yeah, no, none of that happens, and the misunderstanding of what’s actually going on in your brain and what’s happening hormonally, and what’s happening in your body, we’re so unprepared for that, that when it happens, we think there’s something wrong with us. I find grief fog can be really intense, especially for my clients, and most of them had no idea that was a thing until they were experiencing it and they couldn't think clearly and they couldn't remember clearly, and instead of being prepared for it and realizing, “Oh, this is just grief fog,” they, then, think there’s something wrong with them, right, because we just aren't familiar with what happens to a human who is grieving.

0:18:12

Amanda Testa: Right, and I think in grief, extreme stress actually has been proven to reduce your IQ points because your body is processing a huge stress, right?

Krista St-Germain: Yes. Yeah. You literally cannot process what you could process before. It is so taxing on your ability to use the executive functioning part of your brain. it’s just an unfair ask.

Amanda Testa: Right, but I appreciate you talking about this because people -- and I think, too, oftentimes -- well, I can just share from my own personal experience which isn't the same at all, but just in dealing with grief, my dad was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer’s. So he was diagnosed when he was 48. So he was sick for a very long time, and then was in a nursing home, the support care place.

Krista St-Germain: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Amanda Testa: And I hesitate to call it a nursing home ‘cause he was young, but, anyways, grief can hit in different ways, too, right, because then there’s extended grief if someone’s sick and then they die.

0:19:08

Krista St-Germain: Anticipatory grief.

Amanda Testa: And then you're like, oh, well, you should be grieving, but then you're not, right? It’s like all these things that it is so nuanced and complex, yes.

Krista St-Germain: Yes, lots of different theories about grief, lots of different types of grief, and lots of differing opinions about grief. Even people who do grief for a living don't always agree, right? Every single human has a different experience which doesn't make them right or wrong or good or bad. It’s just that grief is unique to every human, and so, to try to generalize it or expect it to go one way and then weaponize it against yourself when it doesn't is just such an injustice, and it’s something I hope we can change.

Amanda Testa: Right, when it comes to post-traumatic growth -- because I do want to touch on that too because I think, oftentimes, it’s not talked about enough - the ability to flourish after a traumatic event, the potential for that.

Krista St-Germain: Yeah.

0:20:02

Amanda Testa: I’m wondering if you might share a little bit more about that.

Krista St-Germain: Absolutely. I remember learning about post-traumatic growth, and it was kind of one of those moments when you're like eerk. Like, the record scratched and you're like, “What? What did I hear?” Because I think most people are familiar with post-traumatic stress disorder, but post-traumatic growth is newer and it’s less talked about so they don't even know it’s a possibility, but, basically, post-traumatic growth is this idea created by a couple of researchers (Tedeschi and Calhoun are their last names), and before their work, what was commonly thought was that when someone experienced a trauma, the goal after that trauma (what was possible after that trauma) was to simply get them back to the same baseline of wellness that they had experienced before the trauma, right? So we were doing okay, and then we hit a low spot, and now we’re trying to get back to okay. 

Then post-traumatic growth came along, and these two researchers started seeing that oh, wait, some people aren’t getting back to the wellness baseline anyway. 

0:21:00

Some people are getting back to that baseline of wellness, but then other people are actually reporting that they're more satisfied with life following the trauma of what’s happening here. And so, it kind of blew the minds of those who thought the goal was just to get back to baseline and helped us reconsider the idea that, no, actually, in five specific domains of life, we can use any trauma that we have been through as a way to bounce forward, not just back, right? So we can have increased personal strength. We can have better relationships, increased spiritual development. We can have a greater appreciation for life. We can open up to possibilities that we never opened up to before. 

I like to think of it like -- I live in Kansas -- if a tornado comes and blows your house down, right -- which just happened a few weeks ago down the street from me, but  anyway -- you could rebuild the exact same house that you had. That’s a possibility, right? There would be nothing wrong with that.

0:22:00

It wouldn't make you better or worse. That’s one option. You could also take what you learned from having lived in that house -- do I want more windows, do I want more electrical outlets, do I like where the master bedroom is, do I want an extra bedroom, do I want a bigger closet? What do I want that’s different? What do I value here? If I’m gonna start from scratch, then what if I actually leaned in and used that information from the prior chapter of life and leveraged it to build something that’s even more aligned with what I value and what I want? That’s post-traumatic growth, and, to me, it’s amazing, but a lot of times people will make even the idea of being more satisfied with life after their person died mean something about their love for their person, like, “Who am I to be happier, and what does that say about me,” and that’s where I come in and try to help them sort through that and show them that those two things aren’t connected.

Amanda Testa: I think that’s huge right there.

Krista St-Germain: Right?

Amanda Testa: ‘Cause I know just in my life I can think of people who I know that just don’t feel okay about moving on because they think that’s a disrespect to their person that died.

0:23:08

Krista St-Germain: Yeah, yeah. Meanwhile, I bet that nine times out of ten, if we could have a conversation with that person who died, what would they want for their loved one? Most of them would want them to be happy, right?

Amanda Testa: Mm-hmm.

Krista St-Germain: But yeah, it's different to be in the situation, and it’s different to, again, not see all of that garbage in your brain as optional because you're just living it as truth, and sometimes it takes somebody outside of your own brain to point it out to you and help you get some leverage over it.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Krista St-Germain: Yeah.

Amanda Testa: I really appreciate the science behind what you're saying, too. It’s like, obviously, we have ways that our brains and bodies respond to things, and there are tools that you can use to navigate how to move forward.

Krista St-Germain: Totally.

Amanda Testa: I love the term positive neuroplasticity that I saw on your website.

Krista St-Germain: Mm, yes.

Amanda Testa: Which there’s a lot around neuroplasticity in our brain. 

0:24:00

We literally have the opportunity to change the way our brains work, and so, I would love if you would share a little bit more about that if you don't mind.

Krista St-Germain: Yeah, so basically, most of us are walking around living programing that exists in our brain, right? Neuropathways that are on autopilot, essentially, it’s the reason we can drive to the grocery store and not remember the drive, right? We don't have to consciously think about it because the pathway exists in our brain, and the brain likes to be efficient, and so, whatever it does often enough and on repeat enough, it doesn't have to consciously choose to do anymore which is good for us because that part of our brain that makes decisions and has those higher functioning skills does have such a limited bandwidth anyway. We need that part of our brain to be efficient and on autopilot, but a lot of what’s on autopilot isn't necessarily moving us towards the life experience that we want, right? A lot of it’s actually holding us back from what we want, and so, this idea of positive neuroplasticity just basically means we can uncover those old patterns that are different for the individual, right, and it’s not universal because what one person might like, another person might find un-useful, and when we find something unuseful, we can create a new pathway, right? 

0:25:11

We can learn to believe and feel in such a way that we cement a new pattern in our brain, right? We can create kind of new highways, if you will, and the science supports that, that just because we believe something now doesn't mean we have to keep believing it. We can actually use our brain to believe new things and create new pathways, and they can be positive.

Amanda Testa: Yeah. 

Krista St-Germain: Yeah.

Amanda Testa: I’m wondering, too, for those who may be finding it hard to reach out for support, what are some of the benefits, ‘cause I know you said you immediately went to therapy, and you got support. How can maybe people open up towards that?

0:25:56

Krista St-Germain: Well, so what I would say is that remember we live in a culture that doesn't really understand grief, and so, it’s really easy to think that what’s happening during grief is indicative of some sort of internal flaw or problem with our character, right, or it’s just us. And so, that’s what often holds us back from asking for support, is we make whatever’s happening mean there’s something wrong with us, and then we have some shame around it, or some worry around it which is the exact reason I specifically love work in groups, right? This is what happened to me. I coached one-on-one for a long time with individual clients, and then I had so many of the same conversations over and over and over, and I struggled to help women see that what was happening wasn't just them. They wouldn't believe me, right, because I’m the coach, but when I could get them together, and they could see -- not me, I’m not making it up -- they could see, “Oh, that’s happening to that woman too. It’s not just me. There’s nothing wrong with me. This is just a part of it,” right, then we make progress so much faster because we get past all of the stuff that everybody’s got in common, and then we can get into the stuff that actually is specific to you. Things move so much faster when you don't try to do it alone because seeing that it’s not just you and you're not flawed will block your progress every time.

Amanda Testa: Right.

0:27:28

Krista St-Germain: So I went back to therapy simply because I already had a good therapist. When I got divorced the first time, I had searched around and found a therapist that worked for me, and so, it was really easy for me to go back because I knew that having someone to listen to me would help. I also felt like I would be a burden. I thought that I would be a burden to other people around me. I just didn't really want to share all that stuff with them, and I loved having a space where I could just go and not be judged and let it all out, and that’s what I needed in acute grief, was just to puke it out. Then, later, when I could think about my thinking, and I was ready to start making changes, and I didn't really just want to talk about what happened anymore, that’s when I think coaching -- I’m just so glad I found it. 

0:28:13

That’s when coaching can come in because, you know, as coaches, I think we’re empathetic. That’s part of our job, but our job is literally to not believe the things that our clients believe that hold them back, right? Our job is to believe that more is possible, and they can create what they want, and it’s a totally different experience.

With the age of online -- and I think COVID helped, but even before COVID, for me, all of my work is on Zoom. So whatever the issue is that you want help with, there is a group somewhere for you --

Amanda Testa: Right.

Krista St-Germain: -- that will help you make progress faster, right?

Amanda Testa: It is true.

Krista St-Germain: There is totally.

Amanda Testa: There is still so much about healing in community. It’s so amazing. I mean, I can just share the same. Like, when I work with women in groups, it never fails there’s a, “I thought I was the only one!”

0:29:02

Krista St-Germain: Yes, yes!

Amanda Testa: And everyone’s like, “Oh, my gosh! It’s not just me!”

Krista St-Germain: Yes.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Krista St-Germain: Yeah, there’s like the chats going wild of, like, “Me too! I’m so glad you brought it up! I was embarrassed to talk about it.” Whenever we talk about sex in my group, it’s exactly the same thing that happens, right? And so, I can only imagine what happens in your coaching where it is such a stigmatized subject that when people have a safe environment to be honest about it, and other people are being honest about it, then I can only imagine how liberating that is and how much progress you're able to help people to make that’s just so much harder in a one-on-one environment -- and, literally, almost impossible. If you're trying to go it alone, it’s gonna take you forever.

Amanda Testa: Right. I do feel like just getting support is so important. I think it’s amazing, the communities that you've created. I’d love if you would share a little bit more about how people can connect with you and how you work.

0:30:00

Krista St-Germain: Totally, and before I do that, it just reminded me of something. Right before I hopped on the phone with you, I was doing a podcast interview for my own podcast with one of my clients who’s graduating, and one of the things she said is, “I’m kind of an introvert.” We were talking about why coaching in a group was powerful for her, and she said, “I’m kind of an introvert, and so, what was really nice for me is to be able to come and not have to be the one that a coach had to pull conversation out of, right? I could sit there and kind of watch and absorb and benefit from just being there without having to be in the hot seat,” and, you know, how powerful that was for her.

But anyway, I had a podcast called The Widowed Mom Podcast. It is, of course, serving a very specific woman with a specific story, but I try to cover a lot of grief and post-traumatic growth-related topics and make it very useable for anyone, so definitely people can come and listen to the podcast, and I have a free course on grief. For anybody who’s new to grief or maybe wants to support someone in grief, they can go to coachingwithkrista.com, and if they scroll down on the homepage, you put your name and email in there, and you’ll have access to a free course which is just kind of meant to dismantle some of those most basic myths and get people a little bit more prepared to support themselves or someone else. So yeah.

0:31:14

Amanda Testa: Amazing. I’m wondering, too, if there’s any question that you wished I would have asked that I didn't ask or any other words you want to make sure to share?

Krista St-Germain: You know, because I serve such a specific niche, I would love to learn more about what your clients struggle with as it relates to grief and sex. What do they bring to you?

Amanda Testa: You know, a lot of it, honestly, when it comes to grief, it can show up in so many different ways, like you say, but a lot of times it’s around maybe grieving something that they’ve lost through illness.

Krista St-Germain: A non-death loss, yeah.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, or grieving just maybe ways they feel like their body has betrayed them or if it is a loss, it’s allowing themselves access to pleasure or how they can find ways to feel good in their bodies again. 

0:32:04

And so, a lot of the work that I do in that lens is around that, but for the most part, the trauma-resolution work that I do has a lot to do with sex-related things.

Krista St-Germain: Yeah. Sure.

Amanda Testa: You know, there’s a lot of trauma in that window, and so, I feel like when you work with sexuality, that’s just a part of it, you know?

Krista St-Germain: Yep.

Amanda Testa: One in three people is affected from sexual assault in some way, and there’s a lot around that that I work with, so more so than just specific to grief.

Krista St-Germain: I’m so glad you brought that up, though, because I do think that oftentimes people associate grief with only death losses and they forget -- and even as I’m talking about it I’m not doing it any service ‘cause I’m so in the world of death with spousal loss -- but that grief really is our response to a perceived loss, and a perceived loss can be so many different things to so many people. I have a friend who coaches weight loss. She’s so good at it, and people will grieve the body they thought they were going to have when they lost all the weight and how it’s different from the body that they actually have when they lost all the weight or grieve not eating the way that they used to eat or the satisfaction that they used to get, the emotional high they used to get when they ate particular foods, and so, yeah, really expanding our idea of grief.

0:33:21

Another friend of mine, she made a million dollars in her business after working for several years to do it and then cried for a week, right? The reason that happened -- it was grief. She didn't see it that way, but she thought when she hit that level of success, she anticipated a different experience, and when she got there she realized, “Oh, actually, I’m still the same human person --,”

Amanda Testa: Right, right.

Krista St-Germain: “-- and this idea that some number is gonna change my life… it didn't go that way. I expected it to go one way, and it went the other way, and it felt like a loss,” and so, enter grief. So, yeah, just broadening up that definition, I’m so glad you did that. 

Amanda Testa: Yes, well, thank you so much, again, for being here. I’ll make sure to put in the show notes, as well, where everyone can connect with you and, yes, if there’s anything else that you feel would be supportive as a last word?

0:34:08

Krista St-Germain: You know, I’m always here, so if somebody has a question or they need a resource and they're not a widowed mom -- maybe you've got somebody in your life that you're trying to figure out how to support, don't be bashful. I may not have the exact answer, but I can point you in the right direction and get you the right resource. So don't be afraid to reach out.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, I think that’s good, too, because maybe you are supporting someone who’s grieving, and that also brings up a lot for people who are like, “I don't know what to do,” or, “I don't know how to show up,” or, “I don't know what to say,” all those things that could be coming up.

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Krista St-Germain: Yeah, absolutely.

Amanda Testa: Beautiful. Well, thank you so much, again, Krista. It’s a pleasure to meet you, and I really appreciate all your wisdom.

Krista St-Germain: Thanks for having me.

Amanda Testa: Yes, and thank you all for listening, and we will look forward to seeing you next week!

Thank you so much for listening to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa, and if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation.

0:35:05

I invite you to reach out. You can contact me at amandatesta.com/activate, and we can have a heart-to-heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook in the Find Your Feminine Fire group, and if you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends. 

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