Authentic Expression, Confidence, and Mindfulness through Music with Lisa Townsend

Feeling free in your self expression is a big piece of feeling embodied in your sensual self.   And finding ways to allow your authentic expression can look different than you may expect.

Join me as I talk with Lisa Townsend on freeing your authentic expression, learning how to use your voice for more confidence, and how music and singing can be used as mindfulness tools.  

Being able to express ourselves and allow our authentic music -- whatever form that might be -- to come out is such a powerful and important confidence tool. 

Lisa Townsend is a board-certified music therapist and creative vocal coach who has a passion for creating space for exploration so you can speak and sing with courage and authenticity, use music as a tool to overcome any kind of limiting belief.

Listen below, or tune in via: Apple Podcasts,Stitcher or Spotify.

JOIN IN THE DISCUSSION ON THIS EPISODE AND MORE IN MY FREE FACEBOOK GROUP, FIND YOUR FEMININE FIRE HERE.

Lisa spent nearly 20 years helping clients use music as a tool for self-discovery. Her passion and expertise is in helping emerging leaders, executives, and CEOs overcome limiting beliefs around their voice, channel their creativity through singing, and learn to love and trust their voice so they can lead with confidence and authenticity.

She breaks tradition in her teaching style because it didn’t fit her as a student.  She invites clients to UNLEARN what they think they know about their voice. By encouraging active listening and engaging thoughtful curiosity about what is happening, clients become the expert of their own voice.

From building + leading teams and developing programs in nonprofits serving marginalized communities, to working at schools with youth using music for social change, she is steadfast in my belief that everyone is musical.

Find out more about Lisa and connect with her below!

Lisa Townsend Music website HERE.

Follow her on FB HERE

And find her on Instagram HERE.

If you liked this episode, please consider giving me a 5 Star Review on Apple Podcasts! It truly does help the podcast grow. 

Want more support in bringing your desires to life?  Schedule a confidential heart to heart with Amanda HERE.

EPISODE 202: Finding Confidence and Mindfulness Through Singing with Lisa Townsend

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Amanda Testa: Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a sex, love, and relationship coach, and in this podcast, my guests and I talk sex, love, and relationships, and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome!

Our voice is such a powerful tool, and being able to express ourselves and allow our authentic music -- whatever form that might be -- allowing it to come out is such a powerful and important tool, and I am so excited because today I’m talking with Lisa Townsend, and she is a board-certified music therapist and creative vocal coach. What I love about Lisa and her work is, really, she has such a passion for creating space for exploration so you can speak and sing with courage and authenticity, and really using music as a tool for inspiring leaders to really overcome any kind of limiting belief around their voice because our voice, there is sometimes -- and I can share from my own experience in the past, like, really not liking the sound of my voice, not feeling like I could express myself in the way I wanted to. 

0:01:08

These are just normal things, I think, that we face in life, and so, I’m really excited to talk with Lisa today. I’ve been so passionate about the voice lately too because I have just been inspired to sing, and I’ve been taking singing lessons and just really diving into this topic, and I find it so fascinating. 

So, welcome! Thank you so much for being here, Lisa!

Lisa Townsend: Thank you for having  me! I love talking voice. I love people who just love using their voice in lots of different ways -- podcasting, singing, so I’m thrilled to have the conversation. Thanks.

Amanda Testa: Mm-hmm. Yes, and I just want to shout out something. I just went to an experience that Lisa hosted earlier this week, and it was so lovely. It was a soul singing session, and basically, we had these intentions, and then we sang them, and it was the most amazing meditation expression. It was so fun. So I just love, love, love what you’re doing, and I am excited to share you with the listeners!

Lisa Townsend: Thank you.

0:02:01

Amanda Testa: Yeah, I’d love to -- you know, if you just wouldn't mind letting me know and just sharing with the listeners a little bit of your journey and why singing, why working with the voice became such a passion for you.

Lisa Townsend: I would love to. So I grew up in western New York, and my maternal grandmother (who is 92, she just turned 92), she was a singer in the family. We would play piano and she would teach me harmonies. We’d go to the theatre, and my dad was self-taught guitar and loved singing The Eagles and The Beatles. So I grew up around music in that way. I did choirs. I performed in church shows, you know, high school choir and theatre, and, well, I was trying to decide what I wanted to do. I had loved, loved, loved my high school choir director. He had just made such an impact. I loved the community that we built together through music, and it wasn't about singing notes; it was about, you know, the collaborative, co-creative process of sharing our voices together and the beauty and magic that can happen when we do that.

0:03:01

So I thought I wanted to be, I don’t know, a choir director, (music education) and I went to college for music education at the same university he went to, and I, right away, knew it was not for me. It was one of those internal knowings. I did not actually wanna teach a classroom of music, you know, traditional music education. I, later, found out about the degree of music therapy, and without knowing too much about it, went down to visit a college in North Carolina where I learned that music therapy was more about using music as a tool for non-musical goals. What was exciting about that, to me, is that it was about experiential. You know, it wasn't about reading rhythms and music theory and, you know, some of the elements of music that can be really intimidating and overwhelming. Honestly, I feel like I was guided to this for so many reasons.

So when I realized music didn't have to be the end product, it was part of the journey, I mean, I was in. I got to see right away in the onsite clinic that they had, you know, what that looked like in a session, and then moved, later, into doing some family music classes. 

0:04:07

Again, for the experience of music, having families sing together, I realized so many of the mothers didn't love singing. They were highly aware of their voice in class and maybe embarrassed about it even though all of them were embarrassed. It always took one brave soul and me to kind of lead the group and, really, overly encouraging them to be silly, and goofy, and playful, and there is a piece of that that we lose when we’re older. I’m kind of skipping some in between about how I’ve used music therapy in my work, but to jump from music is the tool, not the performance aspect, I saw it showing up. I thought if mamas aren't singing with their babies, what is wrong with the world? [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: Oh, my gosh, that’s so true! Well, it’s funny that you mention that ‘cause, you know, I grew up with music, too, and my dad loved music and live music. I think my parents went and saw Elvis when I was in the womb.

Lisa Townsend: Yes!

0:04:58

Amanda Testa: We were always listening to music, and I grew up playing piano for 12 years and guitar and banjo. Whatever instrument I wanted to play, my parents were very supportive. I’m very grateful for that privilege of being able to just explore and have fun with it. I was in choirs and things but never thought my voice was very good. I guess, when I got into college I played guitar and things like that. I love live music. You know, I was a Deadhead, and have went and seen so many live shows. I just love music so much, and it is such a great way of connecting and just dropping into a different realm. But I do recall when my daughter was born and singing to her I was like I don't think I’ve sung in, like, 15 years. The first time I was, like, trying to sing, and it felt so weird, and I felt like every time I would sing I would cry. It was just a lot.

Lisa Townsend: Mm.

Amanda Testa: It’s interesting. So I can relate to those moms that are like, doo-doo. You know, singing the rappy songs or whatever it is. [Singing] Six little ducks went out to play. And you can even sing it even now.

Lisa Townsend: [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: It’s so funny to remember that, so thank you for triggering that memory in me.

0:05:58

Lisa Townsend: Thank you for that memory and sharing that because it speaks to that our voice is one of the most vulnerable things we have, and public speaking, whether we’re on Zoom, whether we’re on a stage, those are two different kinds of speaking, it’s still our voice. Then you add a tone or a note to a word and suddenly you’re singing -- the most vulnerable thing you can do -- and it can tap into emotions. I think we’re afraid of places we’ve not explored before which absolutely kind of takes us into the next part of the conversation which is -- I’ll skip over a bit of this, but I’ll just drop in a tiny bit. The moms singing to their babies, I decided to play with the idea of what if I took parents’ words and set them to music, and I did a simple song. It’s not Adele singing a lullaby, [Laughs] it’s Lisa singing a lullaby, like, with a very accessible, simple sound that, then -- ‘cause we all mimic our favorite artists. Well, fine, I’m not gonna give you anything that you can’t do. I’m gonna create things in a key that’s comfortable, at a tempo that’s slow, and you're gonna give me the words and I’m just gonna, you know, set them to music for you. 

0:07:05

So there should be less vulnerability because it’s things you say to your children all the time or hopes and wishes you have for them. Maybe that takes away some of the vulnerability. I do still do some of that, but it’s more, kind of, word of mouth at this point.

Then fast forward to okay, when did people tell us that we couldn't sing? Again, I’m coming at this from a singing lens today, but I think it’s highly applicable to speaking in the many ways we use our voice. When did that happen? I think that happens around age six or seven when we start to have a reflection about what others think about us. We can see ourselves in other people’s eyes, and can I talk to women who are mothers who are in their 30s and 40s who, maybe, need to be reminded that the stories that they tell themselves, maybe, aren’t their stories. 

0:07:58

Those are habits that we’ve created, and singing is a tool like anything else. Taking your voice to the gym, learning new techniques, exploring new scary places, and approaching it from a sense of play. What if? What if we did that? [Laughs]

I created a community choir where the sole purpose was we love harmonies, we love hearing and singing harmonies. Let’s create them. Simple, easy, beautiful. Our favorite hippie bands from the ‘60s, ‘70s, all those gorgeous -- Eagles, CCR, Crosby, Stills, Nash -- yeah, all those gorgeous rich harmonies. Can we create that? We’re just, like, normal people. Yes, we can, and here’s how, and it takes, you know, developing an ear for sound and knowing what your voice feels like, and so many things. So all of that exploration, without going into too much detail, is how I decided my ideal client is people who have been told they can’t or shouldn’t sing who are trying to be more dynamic and bold with their voice or, really, kind of want to but have some limitations whether that’s self-imposed or societally shared with them at some point, and they took it on as their own.

0:09:06

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and I know for myself, I can remember a distinct moment of hearing that I wasn’t a good singer. You know, trying out for some solo in choir and not getting the parts or whatever. Right, those kinds of things, at the time, might not seem like a big deal, but they do stick with you. And so, I’m wondering, you know, what are some of the other limiting beliefs that you see around voice with people?

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, that’s a good question, and I do think you speak to -- everyone has a moment. Everyone has a moment where they were told they were too much or not enough or you’re too quiet, you’re too loud, and whether or not that’s tied to singing, again, you and I are in the world where we’re sharing our voice, we’re sharing a message. Where does that stop us in a way that we didn’t realize that’s not our story, that’s actually not true. That was someone else’s truth, and we just may not have had the ability to kind of let it roll off our shoulders, and so, we carry that with us. 

0:10:04

I just made myself a voice note before we hopped on that said something like, “We all have the script; I can’t sing.” I don't know if it’s, like, a script that is socially acceptable, that when someone says something about voice (even me, I’m a vocalist), I don’t always own that because I’m not on an American Idol stage. Again, that’s the narrative I’m trying to change.

Amanda Testa: [Laughs] Right.

Lisa Townsend: It’s a practice.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: It doesn't just happen overnight. Where does that come from? So I think, most often, it’s people either sincerely believing they don’t or can’t sing. “I don’t hit that note.” Well, I mean, there are a lot of questions around that note. Is it the right note for you? Are you pushing? Are you feeling vocal effort? Did you wake up? Did you not sleep well? Have you not had water in 24 hours? So many reasons why you can’t hit a note, and that actually doesn't mean you can’t sing. 

0:10:58

It means we need to have an awareness about how we create sound, and then you can say, “Oh, I’m struggling with this. Is there anything I can do to adjust so that it’s more comfortable or that I find it more beautiful?” 

So, anyway, that script of, “Oh, I don't sing,” or, “Oh, I sing, but only in the shower.”

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, “I can't hit high notes.” Yeah, and we’re always comparing ourselves with our favorite artists who are -- live music is it. That’s where you hear the raw voice. From a studio you are not gonna hear all the tricky spots that we all have in our voice, you know? It’s not a perfect art. It’s not perfect.

Amanda Testa: Right. You know, it is true. It’s just like looking in a magazine. It’s photoshopped. It’s not real. That’s not the reality, and that’s what happens when you’re listening to artists on the radio or listening to studio-perfected, auto-tuned, cleaned-up songs, no one’s gonna sound like that.

Lisa Townsend: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Testa: But I think, you know, what I love about it, though, is just how it can be a way to connect with your authentic voice and to listen to your voice, to express without judgment. 

0:12:00

I really think I love new ways to be able to express yourself confidently, because it shows up in every area of your life, right? Whether you’re singing or whether you’re speaking or whether you’re trying to connect with someone new or whether you’re trying to communicate your needs in the bedroom, right, it’s all so connected. And so, I’d love if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit more around things that you think are some tips that you can do around just appreciating your voice for what it is or not judging what comes out of your mouth. [Laughs]

Lisa Townsend: Mm-hmm. Life-long practices, but yes, there are some tips, and I think what you speak to, first, is awareness. Another piece of this is resonance, practice, and so, we can talk about those in depth. I was talking with a friend recently who reminded me that nothing gets you more comfortable with your own voice than in sharing it with others and getting comfortable hearing yourself. So we take ourselves to the gym, or we get outside and exercise to remind our muscles what to do. 

0:12:57

We need to do that, and voice work is one really fun way whether you have a coach, whether you hop on YouTube, honestly, whether you just sing along. A lot of people are even just uncomfortable, you know, singing out loud. I think a lot of us sing in our heads. You know, we have music on and we kind of sing it around in our heads, but physically using our instrument in a way that you can hear yourself is like taking yourself to the gym, and the more you do it, the more it becomes second nature. The more it becomes second nature, the less you second guess it, because you say, “Oh, that’s just me. I know how I sound.” 

I don't know if you have a story around that around podcasting. I imagine that is something that happens for those of us who use our voice in a recorded way and hear it over and over again. Initially, the judgment is so high, and the more you kind of use that muscle, the less activated or triggered you might be by the sound. I don't know if you have something to share around that, but I find that fascinating.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, well, it’s interesting because I think I can remember times in the past where I would listen to my voice on a recording and be like that does not sound like me, and also, just how my voice has changed over the years ‘cause I grew up in Georgia, and I don't really have an accent anymore. I found this random mixtape back in the day -- remember those? 

0:14:06

We used to make those, and my friend and I would send cassettes back and forth to each other, and I was listening to the voice, and I was like who is that! I was like oh, my god, that’s me! [Laughs]

Lisa Townsend: Yeah.

Amanda Testa: Yes, but it is true. It’s, like, the judgment we have, but now, after using my voice for my work for so many years, I’m just very used to it and the sound of it, but I do know it can be really hard just ‘cause sometimes I’ll invite my students to record something and then listen back to it because that does affect your brain in different ways when you listen to your own voice, and it’s a really hard thing to do for a lot of people -- like, really hard.

Lisa Townsend: Yes. Yeah, and one of the tips I use -- or tools I use in one-on-one voice work, and also in my group work, has been asynchronous feedback meaning -- actually, primarily, I have used Marco Polo which is a video message. I met one of my former clients last night for dinner, and she and her husband, we were playing, and I said, “You know, this has been such a good tool, but people really resist doing it because they can see themselves and hear themselves, and that is really tricky.” 

0:15:07

If you're not having a conversation with someone and you're just looking at yourself, I mean, in the world of social media, now, we’re doing all sorts of reels and things on Instagram. We’re going live, and you just see yourself, and it’s like you’re just in this echo chamber. It feels very funny until you practice it, and then you kind of say ope, I’m here. I’m in my zone. I’m gonna find my flow.

But, to your point, it takes a considerable amount of effort to see yourself or hear yourself over and over again and get through, kind of, those uncomfortable moments or ask, “Hey, I notice this about my voice,” and finding someone, a mentor, you can say, “You know, is there a way to change that or is that typical or is that something so noticeable that, actually, I should think about keeping it because it makes people recognize my voice in the crowd?” You know, there are some things about our voice that we think are uncomfortable for us to hear but make us notable in a crowd, and so, what we’re talking about here is frequent exposure, right? 

0:16:03

That can be through, like I said, just singing out loud. Make sure you hear yourself a little often. Be really playful with your sound and not afraid to try new things, which sounds silly, but think about singing your favorite song in a character voice, and just see what comes out. It’s like playing with your old mixtapes, as you described, and just hearing and saying, you know, that is my authentic voice. Now, I have an authentic voice, and what can I do with the tools that I have?

Amanda Testa: Mm-hmm.

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, it’s very interesting to have just the awareness. Awareness is step one. Then you can think about being playful. Then you can take it deeper into okay, that’s my voice. I don’t sound sure of myself. Is that because the message I’m speaking doesn't feel like it’s my truth? Am I saying something I want people to hear or something that they want to hear from me and maybe not my full, authentic truth? 

0:17:03

My word for that is resonance. Oh, you know, I might have to backpedal and say that’s not exactly what I meant, and say it again, and then you can feel resonance. It’s a way we sound with our voice. We can be resonant, and you can feel like it resonates.

Amanda Testa: I know we were talking about this earlier, but with that resonance and how you can communicate with more confidence through, you know, learning to love your voice and working with it in different ways like singing or just even playfully. I love how you mentioned the archetypes. You're, like, just playing with a different voice, ‘cause it can be so powerful to use archetypal play to heal or to try something new, and I love that. 

And so, the other thing that you just mentioned which I think is important is kind of, like, the authentic voice. You mentioned this when we were talking before about phrasing and how you speak if you end your voice in certain ways. It’s, like, question mark versus a truth, and I’m wondering if that comes into play when you’re speaking that just now. 

0:18:02

Like, when I’m talking, is this really what I want to say or this is what I want to say or how you can speak to that a little more.

Lisa Townsend: That’s so fun to think about. Okay, so let’s think about how music and voice overlap. This is my zone of genius and zone of interest and play, but our subconscious will make our voice do things. You know, we just speak without thinking, oftentimes, right? Voice work calls us in to say okay, let’s have a little bit more awareness around this. This is a podcast episode. Am I a little nervous? Yes. Are you a familiar person? Yes, but now we’re being recorded. Now, I’m looking at myself on Zoom. Now, I’m with headphones that I haven’t used before. All of these things make me think okay, I know what I know, and yet, now, there’s a spotlight moment. 

So I like to think of things in -- there are lots of different spotlight moments. That can be speaking up in a group program. That can be on an interview. The first awareness I had -- I’ll walk you through my process today. I’m excited. I can feel the excitement in my chest. I am speaking high in my chest. 

0:19:02

I can feel it. As you were talking, I took a really low belly breath to recenter myself and kind of just reminded myself, “Lisa, you’re so excited. Connect a little deeper. Connect a little lower. You’ll find your flow again.” Not that I haven't had it, but a different flow that then, to me, signals my body you can pace your language, your words, your phrases differently. You don't have to tell everybody everything once. People can feel your excitement like this. It’s really hard to listen when things are just going like this. You can tell when someone’s not taking a deep breath and that they don’t speak between their -- they don’t breathe between their sentences. [Inhales Deeply] [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: [Laughs] Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: It’s not a bad thing. It’s a practice, and it happens every time. So some of the tools I like to talk about that parallel speaking and breathing is -- yes, phrasing. Thinking about any phrase is a beautiful arc. Like, not a mountain peak, just a hill. 

0:19:59

That we have peaks and valleys both with how many words we say in a phrase, the melody of our voice in one of those phrases, when we intentionally take breath, and, to your point, how we both begin and end a sentence. I’m using my hands a lot. It’s not a visual medium, podcasting, but, you know, you can see that I’m kind of giving you these hand gestures where if we’re, maybe, not checked in and not aware, we might end a sentence with our voice on an uptick. So did you know that we have so many different tools for our voice? Yes, we do. I mean, you give these little clues that sometimes you want to intentionally do that to capture attention, and other times you might end it on a high and people are like, “Wait, wait, you left me hanging. What do you need from me?” That takes their ears away from the message that you’re trying to convey. So knowing how those peaks and valleys in the melody of your voice, what intentional breaths can feel and look like to your audience and to you, and then how you’ve ending your sentence with intention so that your message is being heard as you intended. 

0:21:09

All really fun things to play with in singing and feel very weird to do just speaking.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, but I think, you know, like you say for so many of us in this day and age, we have to be visible, right? There’s just a lot more going on, a lot more video, a lot more just being visible and being able to, kind of, learn these different ways to express yourself, I think, is a really powerful thing. Also, being able to speak more courageously, you know, having more bravery and using your voice, I’m curious how you feel singing helps with that.

Lisa Townsend: I mean, isn’t singing the most brave thing you can do? [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: [Laughs] Yeah!

Lisa Townsend: I mean, it is one of those -- a simple fact, like, as we said earlier, singing is one of the most vulnerable things you can do, and it is a practice, and I don’t know how public speaking coaches or speaking coaches -- I think they just do a lot of practice, right? 

0:22:06

A little more like an acting class where you might put on a character and you might play with all these sme tools, but in music it’s built in. It’s built in. I mean, A, they’re not your words so you’re less emotionally attached to them, maybe, in the moment. Later down the line you can actually play with those based on how you’re telling the story, but on the front end, not my words, I just get to play with the phrasing. I get to choose or hear where the music guides me to breathe. I know I can’t hit certain notes if I don’t have enough breath support. If I don’t have breath support, that means I’m not checking in with my core. Okay, I have to activate my core. I have to activate my shoulders. I have to know what a full breath feels like, and then I need to know where my voice is landing and how to adjust throughout. All of those things are so important for speaking and much more fun to play with in song because, again, it’s kind of a roadmap for your voice naturally. 

0:23:03

What we like to do in voice work is deconstruct a song. So not only do we listen to how the original artist did it, but then we kind of -- I tell my clients it’s like naked singing because I just have the piano accompaniment. There’s a delay on Zoom, so I can’t always hear them full voice because of the sound delay, so it allows them in the safe space to play with their voice without their favorite artist and hear themselves. I say okay, “Well, did that feel good? Did you like the sound of it? Okay, if not, what can we do,” and we adjust and adapt, and then they hear their own voice and naturally find, “I have to breathe there. Oh, I’m hitting this! Okay, I need to make sure I’m supported,” and all of that becomes much more of a practice in a two-minute-and-thirty-second window because songs are short. [Laughs] So it gives you a real timestamp for practicing these both in the context of singing along, singing with a karaoke recording, or in our work which is kind of pulling it out of that original format and hearing your own voice in that way.

0:24:02

Amanda Testa: I love that, and it’s like building that muscle, and it sounds like it’s also such a powerful way to get into your body.

Lisa Townsend: Mm-hmm. The full body

Amanda Testa: [Laughs] You know, when you're wanting to bring your feminine fire alive, being in your body and singing and just the resonance -- just from a therapeutic perspective, would you feel okay sharing a little bit about just the beautiful power of our voice and vibration and how it supports us?

Lisa Townsend: Yes. I mean, thank you for asking that! I think I was just telling you before we recorded that I was listening to one of your episodes about pleasure, and I think one of my deepest wishes is for women to feel pleasure with their voice, and that’s individual, it’s situational. To your point about resonance or as we were speaking about resonance earlier, you know when something feels right or if it doesn't, and I might take this into two different realms. It’s kind of like the external. This feels good as I’m saying it, the actual physical act and how I can feel it going out into the world. 

0:25:02

I can feel the energy of it. This all feels resonant. It feels good. It feels pleasurable. It feels right and authentic. It can also apply to your inner voice. Is this really what I mean? Is this truly how I wanted to say it in the voices in our head, maybe, like, our inner voice and our inner knowing resonance.

But from a physiological standpoint, you can put your hand on your chest. You can feel it now. If you’re talking in your chest voice, there is vibration, right? We often speak pretty low. We speak in this lower chest register, and we talk about this space as being warm. Yeah, I see you rubbing your -- yeah, it’s warm. It’s low. It can feel really nice. Sometimes it can also, you know, take words out for a second and you can just hum. [Hums] Hmmm-hmmm. I don’t know if you can hear that with Zoom, but you can take that vibration and send it different places. We don’t think about this. 

0:25:58

In the context of our conversations so far, we’re talking about the practical aspects of using our voice, but not only when we say something that’s resonant, but when we place it in a part of our bodies that feels good, I mean, think about the benefits. You can feel that inner massage that’s happening, and there is a lot of work around toning and voicing. You probably talk about this a lot, embody work where creating that energy inside, igniting that feminine power is available to us, and our voice is one of the tools to do that.

Amanda Testa: Yes, it is. There’s four main holistic sex tools that I love to teach, and voice is one, sounding. I do feel like because all those vibrations are just the body actually -- it’s a healing modality too with the vibration, right? It stimulates the vagus nerve and just helps to bring things online that might be offline. That’s what I love about singing and just, like, a meditation or anything like that, it just brings you so present in the moment, and that’s what I’ve been loving for my own singing journey lately is just being in the moment.

Lisa Townsend: Yes.

0:26:59

Amanda Testa: You know, I think that’s the beautiful thing about music. It makes you so present which is so important. When we get out of our bodies or we’re always up in our heads, I feel like in our day and age, the culture that we live in is very much like too-doo-loo-do-doo, what’s the next thing?

Lisa Townsend: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Testa: Like, taking the time to drop in and be with yourself in whatever way that feels good is so important. And, I mean, the other thing, too, that I think is so powerful about the work you do is just how you can translate what you’ve learned through singing and stretching your comfort zone and being brave is that when you go, then, to just to talk to someone, that feels a lot easier, right? It’s like when you train for a race, for example, when you do a lot of -- I’ve done mountain trail races before so you get a lot of hills and a lot of running uphill. Then, when you’re just running along the flats, it feels so easy which is, like, singing is the hardest thing ever to do in front of someone. If you can do that, then of course you can go speak. [Laughs]

Lisa Townsend: Yeah! It’s such a great analogy. You wouldn’t just start running without warming up your body, and so, again, the awareness of am I in the right place to start this -- well, yeah, a lot of things we could talk about in that way, but you wouldn't just run on a trail without having done practice beforehand. 

0:28:11

Stretching is a whole other conversation. I would really -- I love the mindfulness piece of the conversation, and so, in that middle of the run, if you just ran cold, fine. Your body still has a baseline to work from, and if you’re using your voice, if you’re practicing, if you’re trying new things, you’ll never go back to that baseline, Singing 101 again. You’ll have a foundation, and then you’ll say, “Oh, but, actually, I know what’s possible, and I’m not doing it right now. What can I do to adjust,” and it won’t be, like, “I can’t sing; it’s the end of the world.” It won’t happen like that. You’ll say, “I know I have the tools. They might not be accessible to me right now. I might just have to slow down my run, stop for a moment and stretch, and then get back out on the trails again ‘cause my body knows what to do, my voice knows what to do. I trust it. I know it’s there. I’m gonna check in and make sure I can find it again. 

0:28:59

Singing is a mindfulness practice. You cannot be anywhere else when you’re singing. It’s very hard. One of my favorite conversations recently was around how every line of conversation, of song, is an opportunity to begin again, and there’s nothing else that really allows you that kind of grace and freedom to reset. It’s such a beautiful thing, and we also, of course, are tapping into creativity and some of what you, you know, discussed about getting into our bodies in a different way. It’s a full body experience, and, I mean, what a healing thing on its own just to think about what’s happening inside.

Amanda Testa: For sure.

Lisa Townsend: Taking our head out of it and getting into our bodies.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and I’m sure this work that you do also helps people trust their voice more.

Lisa Townsend: That’s it.

Amanda Testa: Right?

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, it’s really remarkable to see people -- I’ll take an example from this week. 

0:29:56

One of my clients, we started a new genre of music, and she’s like, “I know I can hit that note. I’ve hit that note before. Why does it feel so high?” We had to kind of dissect why, for her -- you know, she knows she can hit it, but it was just the technique. It was a set up. Then, in her head, because old scripts are hard to flip, she was still telling herself ‘I can’t hit that note.’ I was like, “We’ve hit it before. Remember this song? Sing that. Remember this song?” You know, we just kind of played around with remembering those moments, and then she thought, ”Okay, yeah, I don’t know why I’m still telling myself that.” It’s a practice. It will, maybe, always be a practice, but, again, we don’t start from scratch every time; we create building blocks to trust what you know, be curious about what you don’t know, and maybe not go to all or nothing thinking: “I can’t do this.” It’s, maybe, more, “I’m having trouble with this in this moment.” Quick reflection: anything why, anything coming up for me? Okay, no, I’ll figure it out later. I’m just gonna work with what I have and trust that I have the tools I need for the moment.

0:31:04

Amanda Testa: Powerful skills.

Lisa Townsend: [Laughs] Powerful. It is, and no one teaches us this. I feel like we come to it on our own. We come with coaching and learning from others, and then this self-reflection piece. A lot of us are in this space of self-reflection; a lot of people are not. 

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: But those who are kind of inquiring, curious, I think there’s a lot to explore here.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: It takes it out of yes, singing, I want singing to be for you, I don’t want it to be performative. That’s not what it’s about. All of these tools we’re talking about with singing apply to speaking, it’s just a really fun, creative way -- and a brave space, you know. There’s a little motivation behind it. When you have the music going, you know, as they say, the show must go on, but in the realm of I have two minutes to do this, self-judgment, there’s no time for that. You’re in the  moment. You’re adjusting in that moment, and think of all the times when you've been, you know, having a conversation and needed to reset and stop yourself and feel comfortable kind of, like, quick, a reset in your mind, reassess, and keep going, but you only have split seconds to do that, and voice work really allows you to practice those moments.

0:32:14

Amanda Testa: Yeah, mm-hmm. I just so appreciate you and all your wisdom that you shared, and I know we could go -- we’ve talked about a lot of different things.

Lisa Townsend: Oh, yeah.

Amanda Testa: But I’m wondering if there’s, maybe, one question that I didn't ask -- to really wish that I would have asked. So anything else that you wanted to share?

Lisa Townsend: Mm, I just really think our voice is one of the most important tools and instruments we have available to us, and I think we’ve spoken about this before, but we’re talking a lot about external voice, but I’d like to also reflect quickly on the internal voice.

Amanda Testa: Yes.

Lisa Townsend: Because we make a lot of decisions, especially as entrepreneurs, and you have to know -- it’s like you have to be comfortable listening to yourself to know when the right time to listen is. 

0:32:58

I think we can all think of a time where we knew what we knew before we knew it, [Laughs] waited too long to take action, and, in some cases -- I mean, I think of that from a relationship perspective where, you know, we have an internal knowing, but if we’re not used to listening to ourselves, we’re not gonna hear ourselves when it matters, and if everyone could, kind of in the sense of owning your voice, know that that means not just what people hear, but what you hear. I don’t know how that would change the world, but I feel like it’s pretty important, and it’s a skill that we don’t talk often enough about.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and just in that vein, is, maybe, there one thing that you could share of how we could better listen to that inner voice and honor it?

Lisa Townsend: I think it does come down to checking in, listening, and just that awareness. I think it could be something you practice really simply with partner or a child. You say something and you think am I just saying that because it’s a script? Am I saying it because it feels right in the moment or would I really like to say something else but I don’t want to take the time to have that conversation right now? 

0:34:03

There’s no wrong answer, but I think the piece of knowing the intention behind, is one of the first steps. And then, finding small places to practice where it’s not a high stakes opportunity, and so, that could be from -- I think about people who always say, you know, where do you want to go for dinner? Where do you want to eat? Do you not know? Do you know? I mean, that sounds so simple, but I think you have to trust the smallest steps. You have to practice in the least -- yeah.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: The least -- just these tiny small ways, and, you know how we have to trust ourselves to make decisions and we have to try small moments of trust? Same thing with our voice.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: That little inkling? Something I should follow? I’m gonna follow it and see what happens. Will the world collapse? If it does, can I trust that, you know, I can bring it back together again. I mean, most often, those small moments are not going to -- the bottom is not gonna fall out.

Amanda Testa: Right.

0:35:00

Lisa Townsend: And if it is uncomfortable because people who are used to communicating with you are not used to hearing you in that way, that is -- again, it has to be a small step. Oh, she’s being extra assertive. Okay. Yeah, I mean, that’s an important thing to practice.

Amanda Testa: Yes. So true, ‘cause so often, you know, people that are conditioned as women in this culture don’t always speak up for what they want or they need. I think that is what’s -- you can just, like, break through with that voice and singing, and right now I’m letting my chest open up because yes, I see that so often, you know, of people just not saying what they want or just pleasing or, you know -- and there’s a lot to that, right? Sometimes there are some things that need to be unwound a little deeper, but still just having these opportunities which is why music is such a beautiful healing way to do that, and be in your body, and enjoy the pleasure of your voice and the sounds that you can make and the different ways you can make them. So yay! [Laughs]

Lisa Townsend: Yes, yes, and know that there are people like you and me out there who want you to be playful and explore your voice.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

0:35:59

Lisa Townsend: Find the people who are non-judgmental. Singing is a tool for you, for so many areas of your life, and it’s up to you -- we all experience music really individually, so it’s not up to me as a coach to tell you how to use your voice, it’s to give you all of the tools you need. That’s what makes it authentic. Once you have your toolbox, you get to choose what feels right to you in the moment, and if we can find ways to drop the judgment and settle into does this feel good, does it resonate, do I feel powerful, do I feel authentic, do I feel like me and not -- yeah, just let’s leave it with that. Do I feel like me, a really good version of me that resonates and buzzes and is excited and passionate? 

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: Then, yes, let’s find more opportunities to practice that. You know, whether it’s with music or not, find ways to find that feeling, that little fire inside and follow. Follow that flame. [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: Yes, I love it! Thank you so much, and I’d love, Lisa, if you could just share where everyone can learn more about you and your offerings and how to work with you.

0:37:00

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, well you can find my website at lisatownsendmusic.com. I’m on Instagram @lisatownsendmusic. Facebook is the same, and, as Amanda said, I’m starting a monthly membership for women. We’re using words as intentions. We’re creating musical intentions together. It’s very organic and based on the women who join each week. It’s a live come and start your week here with your voice feeling strong and bold and with other women who also, maybe, have some fears around their voice. Let’s do this together and support one another. And then some group work and some one-on-one work, all different stages of exploration for people.

Amanda Testa: Well, thank you so much again, and I just adore you, and I’m so excited for all that you’re creating, so thank you, Lisa. Thank you for everyone listening, and I’ll make sure to put in the show notes where you can connect with Lisa and learn more about what she has to offer and, also, just inviting you to perhaps use your voice. in some fun ways this week.

0:38:01

Lisa Townsend: Yes, please do!

Amanda Testa: Yes! We will see you next week.

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Amanda Testa: Thank you so much for listening to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa, and if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact me at amandatesta.com/activate, and we can have a heart-to-heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook at the Find Your Feminine Fire group, and if you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends. Go to iTunes and give me a five-star rating and a rating and a raving review so I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself.  Thank you so much for being a part of the community.

[Fun, Empowering Music]

EPISODE 202: Finding Confidence and Mindfulness Through Singing with Lisa Townsend

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Amanda Testa: Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a sex, love, and relationship coach, and in this podcast, my guests and I talk sex, love, and relationships, and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome!

Our voice is such a powerful tool, and being able to express ourselves and allow our authentic music -- whatever form that might be -- allowing it to come out is such a powerful and important tool, and I am so excited because today I’m talking with Lisa Townsend, and she is a board-certified music therapist and creative vocal coach. What I love about Lisa and her work is, really, she has such a passion for creating space for exploration so you can speak and sing with courage and authenticity, and really using music as a tool for inspiring leaders to really overcome any kind of limiting belief around their voice because our voice, there is sometimes -- and I can share from my own experience in the past, like, really not liking the sound of my voice, not feeling like I could express myself in the way I wanted to. 

0:01:08

These are just normal things, I think, that we face in life, and so, I’m really excited to talk with Lisa today. I’ve been so passionate about the voice lately too because I have just been inspired to sing, and I’ve been taking singing lessons and just really diving into this topic, and I find it so fascinating. 

So, welcome! Thank you so much for being here, Lisa!

Lisa Townsend: Thank you for having  me! I love talking voice. I love people who just love using their voice in lots of different ways -- podcasting, singing, so I’m thrilled to have the conversation. Thanks.

Amanda Testa: Mm-hmm. Yes, and I just want to shout out something. I just went to an experience that Lisa hosted earlier this week, and it was so lovely. It was a soul singing session, and basically, we had these intentions, and then we sang them, and it was the most amazing meditation expression. It was so fun. So I just love, love, love what you’re doing, and I am excited to share you with the listeners!

Lisa Townsend: Thank you.

0:02:01

Amanda Testa: Yeah, I’d love to -- you know, if you just wouldn't mind letting me know and just sharing with the listeners a little bit of your journey and why singing, why working with the voice became such a passion for you.

Lisa Townsend: I would love to. So I grew up in western New York, and my maternal grandmother (who is 92, she just turned 92), she was a singer in the family. We would play piano and she would teach me harmonies. We’d go to the theatre, and my dad was self-taught guitar and loved singing The Eagles and The Beatles. So I grew up around music in that way. I did choirs. I performed in church shows, you know, high school choir and theatre, and, well, I was trying to decide what I wanted to do. I had loved, loved, loved my high school choir director. He had just made such an impact. I loved the community that we built together through music, and it wasn't about singing notes; it was about, you know, the collaborative, co-creative process of sharing our voices together and the beauty and magic that can happen when we do that.

0:03:01

So I thought I wanted to be, I don’t know, a choir director, (music education) and I went to college for music education at the same university he went to, and I, right away, knew it was not for me. It was one of those internal knowings. I did not actually wanna teach a classroom of music, you know, traditional music education. I, later, found out about the degree of music therapy, and without knowing too much about it, went down to visit a college in North Carolina where I learned that music therapy was more about using music as a tool for non-musical goals. What was exciting about that, to me, is that it was about experiential. You know, it wasn't about reading rhythms and music theory and, you know, some of the elements of music that can be really intimidating and overwhelming. Honestly, I feel like I was guided to this for so many reasons.

So when I realized music didn't have to be the end product, it was part of the journey, I mean, I was in. I got to see right away in the onsite clinic that they had, you know, what that looked like in a session, and then moved, later, into doing some family music classes. 

0:04:07

Again, for the experience of music, having families sing together, I realized so many of the mothers didn't love singing. They were highly aware of their voice in class and maybe embarrassed about it even though all of them were embarrassed. It always took one brave soul and me to kind of lead the group and, really, overly encouraging them to be silly, and goofy, and playful, and there is a piece of that that we lose when we’re older. I’m kind of skipping some in between about how I’ve used music therapy in my work, but to jump from music is the tool, not the performance aspect, I saw it showing up. I thought if mamas aren't singing with their babies, what is wrong with the world? [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: Oh, my gosh, that’s so true! Well, it’s funny that you mention that ‘cause, you know, I grew up with music, too, and my dad loved music and live music. I think my parents went and saw Elvis when I was in the womb.

Lisa Townsend: Yes!

0:04:58

Amanda Testa: We were always listening to music, and I grew up playing piano for 12 years and guitar and banjo. Whatever instrument I wanted to play, my parents were very supportive. I’m very grateful for that privilege of being able to just explore and have fun with it. I was in choirs and things but never thought my voice was very good. I guess, when I got into college I played guitar and things like that. I love live music. You know, I was a Deadhead, and have went and seen so many live shows. I just love music so much, and it is such a great way of connecting and just dropping into a different realm. But I do recall when my daughter was born and singing to her I was like I don't think I’ve sung in, like, 15 years. The first time I was, like, trying to sing, and it felt so weird, and I felt like every time I would sing I would cry. It was just a lot.

Lisa Townsend: Mm.

Amanda Testa: It’s interesting. So I can relate to those moms that are like, doo-doo. You know, singing the rappy songs or whatever it is. [Singing] Six little ducks went out to play. And you can even sing it even now.

Lisa Townsend: [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: It’s so funny to remember that, so thank you for triggering that memory in me.

0:05:58

Lisa Townsend: Thank you for that memory and sharing that because it speaks to that our voice is one of the most vulnerable things we have, and public speaking, whether we’re on Zoom, whether we’re on a stage, those are two different kinds of speaking, it’s still our voice. Then you add a tone or a note to a word and suddenly you’re singing -- the most vulnerable thing you can do -- and it can tap into emotions. I think we’re afraid of places we’ve not explored before which absolutely kind of takes us into the next part of the conversation which is -- I’ll skip over a bit of this, but I’ll just drop in a tiny bit. The moms singing to their babies, I decided to play with the idea of what if I took parents’ words and set them to music, and I did a simple song. It’s not Adele singing a lullaby, [Laughs] it’s Lisa singing a lullaby, like, with a very accessible, simple sound that, then -- ‘cause we all mimic our favorite artists. Well, fine, I’m not gonna give you anything that you can’t do. I’m gonna create things in a key that’s comfortable, at a tempo that’s slow, and you're gonna give me the words and I’m just gonna, you know, set them to music for you. 

0:07:05

So there should be less vulnerability because it’s things you say to your children all the time or hopes and wishes you have for them. Maybe that takes away some of the vulnerability. I do still do some of that, but it’s more, kind of, word of mouth at this point.

Then fast forward to okay, when did people tell us that we couldn't sing? Again, I’m coming at this from a singing lens today, but I think it’s highly applicable to speaking in the many ways we use our voice. When did that happen? I think that happens around age six or seven when we start to have a reflection about what others think about us. We can see ourselves in other people’s eyes, and can I talk to women who are mothers who are in their 30s and 40s who, maybe, need to be reminded that the stories that they tell themselves, maybe, aren’t their stories. 

0:07:58

Those are habits that we’ve created, and singing is a tool like anything else. Taking your voice to the gym, learning new techniques, exploring new scary places, and approaching it from a sense of play. What if? What if we did that? [Laughs]

I created a community choir where the sole purpose was we love harmonies, we love hearing and singing harmonies. Let’s create them. Simple, easy, beautiful. Our favorite hippie bands from the ‘60s, ‘70s, all those gorgeous -- Eagles, CCR, Crosby, Stills, Nash -- yeah, all those gorgeous rich harmonies. Can we create that? We’re just, like, normal people. Yes, we can, and here’s how, and it takes, you know, developing an ear for sound and knowing what your voice feels like, and so many things. So all of that exploration, without going into too much detail, is how I decided my ideal client is people who have been told they can’t or shouldn’t sing who are trying to be more dynamic and bold with their voice or, really, kind of want to but have some limitations whether that’s self-imposed or societally shared with them at some point, and they took it on as their own.

0:09:06

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and I know for myself, I can remember a distinct moment of hearing that I wasn’t a good singer. You know, trying out for some solo in choir and not getting the parts or whatever. Right, those kinds of things, at the time, might not seem like a big deal, but they do stick with you. And so, I’m wondering, you know, what are some of the other limiting beliefs that you see around voice with people?

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, that’s a good question, and I do think you speak to -- everyone has a moment. Everyone has a moment where they were told they were too much or not enough or you’re too quiet, you’re too loud, and whether or not that’s tied to singing, again, you and I are in the world where we’re sharing our voice, we’re sharing a message. Where does that stop us in a way that we didn’t realize that’s not our story, that’s actually not true. That was someone else’s truth, and we just may not have had the ability to kind of let it roll off our shoulders, and so, we carry that with us. 

0:10:04

I just made myself a voice note before we hopped on that said something like, “We all have the script; I can’t sing.” I don't know if it’s, like, a script that is socially acceptable, that when someone says something about voice (even me, I’m a vocalist), I don’t always own that because I’m not on an American Idol stage. Again, that’s the narrative I’m trying to change.

Amanda Testa: [Laughs] Right.

Lisa Townsend: It’s a practice.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: It doesn't just happen overnight. Where does that come from? So I think, most often, it’s people either sincerely believing they don’t or can’t sing. “I don’t hit that note.” Well, I mean, there are a lot of questions around that note. Is it the right note for you? Are you pushing? Are you feeling vocal effort? Did you wake up? Did you not sleep well? Have you not had water in 24 hours? So many reasons why you can’t hit a note, and that actually doesn't mean you can’t sing. 

0:10:58

It means we need to have an awareness about how we create sound, and then you can say, “Oh, I’m struggling with this. Is there anything I can do to adjust so that it’s more comfortable or that I find it more beautiful?” 

So, anyway, that script of, “Oh, I don't sing,” or, “Oh, I sing, but only in the shower.”

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, “I can't hit high notes.” Yeah, and we’re always comparing ourselves with our favorite artists who are -- live music is it. That’s where you hear the raw voice. From a studio you are not gonna hear all the tricky spots that we all have in our voice, you know? It’s not a perfect art. It’s not perfect.

Amanda Testa: Right. You know, it is true. It’s just like looking in a magazine. It’s photoshopped. It’s not real. That’s not the reality, and that’s what happens when you’re listening to artists on the radio or listening to studio-perfected, auto-tuned, cleaned-up songs, no one’s gonna sound like that.

Lisa Townsend: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Testa: But I think, you know, what I love about it, though, is just how it can be a way to connect with your authentic voice and to listen to your voice, to express without judgment. 

0:12:00

I really think I love new ways to be able to express yourself confidently, because it shows up in every area of your life, right? Whether you’re singing or whether you’re speaking or whether you’re trying to connect with someone new or whether you’re trying to communicate your needs in the bedroom, right, it’s all so connected. And so, I’d love if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit more around things that you think are some tips that you can do around just appreciating your voice for what it is or not judging what comes out of your mouth. [Laughs]

Lisa Townsend: Mm-hmm. Life-long practices, but yes, there are some tips, and I think what you speak to, first, is awareness. Another piece of this is resonance, practice, and so, we can talk about those in depth. I was talking with a friend recently who reminded me that nothing gets you more comfortable with your own voice than in sharing it with others and getting comfortable hearing yourself. So we take ourselves to the gym, or we get outside and exercise to remind our muscles what to do. 

0:12:57

We need to do that, and voice work is one really fun way whether you have a coach, whether you hop on YouTube, honestly, whether you just sing along. A lot of people are even just uncomfortable, you know, singing out loud. I think a lot of us sing in our heads. You know, we have music on and we kind of sing it around in our heads, but physically using our instrument in a way that you can hear yourself is like taking yourself to the gym, and the more you do it, the more it becomes second nature. The more it becomes second nature, the less you second guess it, because you say, “Oh, that’s just me. I know how I sound.” 

I don't know if you have a story around that around podcasting. I imagine that is something that happens for those of us who use our voice in a recorded way and hear it over and over again. Initially, the judgment is so high, and the more you kind of use that muscle, the less activated or triggered you might be by the sound. I don't know if you have something to share around that, but I find that fascinating.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, well, it’s interesting because I think I can remember times in the past where I would listen to my voice on a recording and be like that does not sound like me, and also, just how my voice has changed over the years ‘cause I grew up in Georgia, and I don't really have an accent anymore. I found this random mixtape back in the day -- remember those? 

0:14:06

We used to make those, and my friend and I would send cassettes back and forth to each other, and I was listening to the voice, and I was like who is that! I was like oh, my god, that’s me! [Laughs]

Lisa Townsend: Yeah.

Amanda Testa: Yes, but it is true. It’s, like, the judgment we have, but now, after using my voice for my work for so many years, I’m just very used to it and the sound of it, but I do know it can be really hard just ‘cause sometimes I’ll invite my students to record something and then listen back to it because that does affect your brain in different ways when you listen to your own voice, and it’s a really hard thing to do for a lot of people -- like, really hard.

Lisa Townsend: Yes. Yeah, and one of the tips I use -- or tools I use in one-on-one voice work, and also in my group work, has been asynchronous feedback meaning -- actually, primarily, I have used Marco Polo which is a video message. I met one of my former clients last night for dinner, and she and her husband, we were playing, and I said, “You know, this has been such a good tool, but people really resist doing it because they can see themselves and hear themselves, and that is really tricky.” 

0:15:07

If you're not having a conversation with someone and you're just looking at yourself, I mean, in the world of social media, now, we’re doing all sorts of reels and things on Instagram. We’re going live, and you just see yourself, and it’s like you’re just in this echo chamber. It feels very funny until you practice it, and then you kind of say ope, I’m here. I’m in my zone. I’m gonna find my flow.

But, to your point, it takes a considerable amount of effort to see yourself or hear yourself over and over again and get through, kind of, those uncomfortable moments or ask, “Hey, I notice this about my voice,” and finding someone, a mentor, you can say, “You know, is there a way to change that or is that typical or is that something so noticeable that, actually, I should think about keeping it because it makes people recognize my voice in the crowd?” You know, there are some things about our voice that we think are uncomfortable for us to hear but make us notable in a crowd, and so, what we’re talking about here is frequent exposure, right? 

0:16:03

That can be through, like I said, just singing out loud. Make sure you hear yourself a little often. Be really playful with your sound and not afraid to try new things, which sounds silly, but think about singing your favorite song in a character voice, and just see what comes out. It’s like playing with your old mixtapes, as you described, and just hearing and saying, you know, that is my authentic voice. Now, I have an authentic voice, and what can I do with the tools that I have?

Amanda Testa: Mm-hmm.

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, it’s very interesting to have just the awareness. Awareness is step one. Then you can think about being playful. Then you can take it deeper into okay, that’s my voice. I don’t sound sure of myself. Is that because the message I’m speaking doesn't feel like it’s my truth? Am I saying something I want people to hear or something that they want to hear from me and maybe not my full, authentic truth? 

0:17:03

My word for that is resonance. Oh, you know, I might have to backpedal and say that’s not exactly what I meant, and say it again, and then you can feel resonance. It’s a way we sound with our voice. We can be resonant, and you can feel like it resonates.

Amanda Testa: I know we were talking about this earlier, but with that resonance and how you can communicate with more confidence through, you know, learning to love your voice and working with it in different ways like singing or just even playfully. I love how you mentioned the archetypes. You're, like, just playing with a different voice, ‘cause it can be so powerful to use archetypal play to heal or to try something new, and I love that. 

And so, the other thing that you just mentioned which I think is important is kind of, like, the authentic voice. You mentioned this when we were talking before about phrasing and how you speak if you end your voice in certain ways. It’s, like, question mark versus a truth, and I’m wondering if that comes into play when you’re speaking that just now. 

0:18:02

Like, when I’m talking, is this really what I want to say or this is what I want to say or how you can speak to that a little more.

Lisa Townsend: That’s so fun to think about. Okay, so let’s think about how music and voice overlap. This is my zone of genius and zone of interest and play, but our subconscious will make our voice do things. You know, we just speak without thinking, oftentimes, right? Voice work calls us in to say okay, let’s have a little bit more awareness around this. This is a podcast episode. Am I a little nervous? Yes. Are you a familiar person? Yes, but now we’re being recorded. Now, I’m looking at myself on Zoom. Now, I’m with headphones that I haven’t used before. All of these things make me think okay, I know what I know, and yet, now, there’s a spotlight moment. 

So I like to think of things in -- there are lots of different spotlight moments. That can be speaking up in a group program. That can be on an interview. The first awareness I had -- I’ll walk you through my process today. I’m excited. I can feel the excitement in my chest. I am speaking high in my chest. 

0:19:02

I can feel it. As you were talking, I took a really low belly breath to recenter myself and kind of just reminded myself, “Lisa, you’re so excited. Connect a little deeper. Connect a little lower. You’ll find your flow again.” Not that I haven't had it, but a different flow that then, to me, signals my body you can pace your language, your words, your phrases differently. You don't have to tell everybody everything once. People can feel your excitement like this. It’s really hard to listen when things are just going like this. You can tell when someone’s not taking a deep breath and that they don’t speak between their -- they don’t breathe between their sentences. [Inhales Deeply] [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: [Laughs] Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: It’s not a bad thing. It’s a practice, and it happens every time. So some of the tools I like to talk about that parallel speaking and breathing is -- yes, phrasing. Thinking about any phrase is a beautiful arc. Like, not a mountain peak, just a hill. 

0:19:59

That we have peaks and valleys both with how many words we say in a phrase, the melody of our voice in one of those phrases, when we intentionally take breath, and, to your point, how we both begin and end a sentence. I’m using my hands a lot. It’s not a visual medium, podcasting, but, you know, you can see that I’m kind of giving you these hand gestures where if we’re, maybe, not checked in and not aware, we might end a sentence with our voice on an uptick. So did you know that we have so many different tools for our voice? Yes, we do. I mean, you give these little clues that sometimes you want to intentionally do that to capture attention, and other times you might end it on a high and people are like, “Wait, wait, you left me hanging. What do you need from me?” That takes their ears away from the message that you’re trying to convey. So knowing how those peaks and valleys in the melody of your voice, what intentional breaths can feel and look like to your audience and to you, and then how you’ve ending your sentence with intention so that your message is being heard as you intended. 

0:21:09

All really fun things to play with in singing and feel very weird to do just speaking.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, but I think, you know, like you say for so many of us in this day and age, we have to be visible, right? There’s just a lot more going on, a lot more video, a lot more just being visible and being able to, kind of, learn these different ways to express yourself, I think, is a really powerful thing. Also, being able to speak more courageously, you know, having more bravery and using your voice, I’m curious how you feel singing helps with that.

Lisa Townsend: I mean, isn’t singing the most brave thing you can do? [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: [Laughs] Yeah!

Lisa Townsend: I mean, it is one of those -- a simple fact, like, as we said earlier, singing is one of the most vulnerable things you can do, and it is a practice, and I don’t know how public speaking coaches or speaking coaches -- I think they just do a lot of practice, right? 

0:22:06

A little more like an acting class where you might put on a character and you might play with all these sme tools, but in music it’s built in. It’s built in. I mean, A, they’re not your words so you’re less emotionally attached to them, maybe, in the moment. Later down the line you can actually play with those based on how you’re telling the story, but on the front end, not my words, I just get to play with the phrasing. I get to choose or hear where the music guides me to breathe. I know I can’t hit certain notes if I don’t have enough breath support. If I don’t have breath support, that means I’m not checking in with my core. Okay, I have to activate my core. I have to activate my shoulders. I have to know what a full breath feels like, and then I need to know where my voice is landing and how to adjust throughout. All of those things are so important for speaking and much more fun to play with in song because, again, it’s kind of a roadmap for your voice naturally. 

0:23:03

What we like to do in voice work is deconstruct a song. So not only do we listen to how the original artist did it, but then we kind of -- I tell my clients it’s like naked singing because I just have the piano accompaniment. There’s a delay on Zoom, so I can’t always hear them full voice because of the sound delay, so it allows them in the safe space to play with their voice without their favorite artist and hear themselves. I say okay, “Well, did that feel good? Did you like the sound of it? Okay, if not, what can we do,” and we adjust and adapt, and then they hear their own voice and naturally find, “I have to breathe there. Oh, I’m hitting this! Okay, I need to make sure I’m supported,” and all of that becomes much more of a practice in a two-minute-and-thirty-second window because songs are short. [Laughs] So it gives you a real timestamp for practicing these both in the context of singing along, singing with a karaoke recording, or in our work which is kind of pulling it out of that original format and hearing your own voice in that way.

0:24:02

Amanda Testa: I love that, and it’s like building that muscle, and it sounds like it’s also such a powerful way to get into your body.

Lisa Townsend: Mm-hmm. The full body

Amanda Testa: [Laughs] You know, when you're wanting to bring your feminine fire alive, being in your body and singing and just the resonance -- just from a therapeutic perspective, would you feel okay sharing a little bit about just the beautiful power of our voice and vibration and how it supports us?

Lisa Townsend: Yes. I mean, thank you for asking that! I think I was just telling you before we recorded that I was listening to one of your episodes about pleasure, and I think one of my deepest wishes is for women to feel pleasure with their voice, and that’s individual, it’s situational. To your point about resonance or as we were speaking about resonance earlier, you know when something feels right or if it doesn't, and I might take this into two different realms. It’s kind of like the external. This feels good as I’m saying it, the actual physical act and how I can feel it going out into the world. 

0:25:02

I can feel the energy of it. This all feels resonant. It feels good. It feels pleasurable. It feels right and authentic. It can also apply to your inner voice. Is this really what I mean? Is this truly how I wanted to say it in the voices in our head, maybe, like, our inner voice and our inner knowing resonance.

But from a physiological standpoint, you can put your hand on your chest. You can feel it now. If you’re talking in your chest voice, there is vibration, right? We often speak pretty low. We speak in this lower chest register, and we talk about this space as being warm. Yeah, I see you rubbing your -- yeah, it’s warm. It’s low. It can feel really nice. Sometimes it can also, you know, take words out for a second and you can just hum. [Hums] Hmmm-hmmm. I don’t know if you can hear that with Zoom, but you can take that vibration and send it different places. We don’t think about this. 

0:25:58

In the context of our conversations so far, we’re talking about the practical aspects of using our voice, but not only when we say something that’s resonant, but when we place it in a part of our bodies that feels good, I mean, think about the benefits. You can feel that inner massage that’s happening, and there is a lot of work around toning and voicing. You probably talk about this a lot, embody work where creating that energy inside, igniting that feminine power is available to us, and our voice is one of the tools to do that.

Amanda Testa: Yes, it is. There’s four main holistic sex tools that I love to teach, and voice is one, sounding. I do feel like because all those vibrations are just the body actually -- it’s a healing modality too with the vibration, right? It stimulates the vagus nerve and just helps to bring things online that might be offline. That’s what I love about singing and just, like, a meditation or anything like that, it just brings you so present in the moment, and that’s what I’ve been loving for my own singing journey lately is just being in the moment.

Lisa Townsend: Yes.

0:26:59

Amanda Testa: You know, I think that’s the beautiful thing about music. It makes you so present which is so important. When we get out of our bodies or we’re always up in our heads, I feel like in our day and age, the culture that we live in is very much like too-doo-loo-do-doo, what’s the next thing?

Lisa Townsend: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Testa: Like, taking the time to drop in and be with yourself in whatever way that feels good is so important. And, I mean, the other thing, too, that I think is so powerful about the work you do is just how you can translate what you’ve learned through singing and stretching your comfort zone and being brave is that when you go, then, to just to talk to someone, that feels a lot easier, right? It’s like when you train for a race, for example, when you do a lot of -- I’ve done mountain trail races before so you get a lot of hills and a lot of running uphill. Then, when you’re just running along the flats, it feels so easy which is, like, singing is the hardest thing ever to do in front of someone. If you can do that, then of course you can go speak. [Laughs]

Lisa Townsend: Yeah! It’s such a great analogy. You wouldn’t just start running without warming up your body, and so, again, the awareness of am I in the right place to start this -- well, yeah, a lot of things we could talk about in that way, but you wouldn't just run on a trail without having done practice beforehand. 

0:28:11

Stretching is a whole other conversation. I would really -- I love the mindfulness piece of the conversation, and so, in that middle of the run, if you just ran cold, fine. Your body still has a baseline to work from, and if you’re using your voice, if you’re practicing, if you’re trying new things, you’ll never go back to that baseline, Singing 101 again. You’ll have a foundation, and then you’ll say, “Oh, but, actually, I know what’s possible, and I’m not doing it right now. What can I do to adjust,” and it won’t be, like, “I can’t sing; it’s the end of the world.” It won’t happen like that. You’ll say, “I know I have the tools. They might not be accessible to me right now. I might just have to slow down my run, stop for a moment and stretch, and then get back out on the trails again ‘cause my body knows what to do, my voice knows what to do. I trust it. I know it’s there. I’m gonna check in and make sure I can find it again. 

0:28:59

Singing is a mindfulness practice. You cannot be anywhere else when you’re singing. It’s very hard. One of my favorite conversations recently was around how every line of conversation, of song, is an opportunity to begin again, and there’s nothing else that really allows you that kind of grace and freedom to reset. It’s such a beautiful thing, and we also, of course, are tapping into creativity and some of what you, you know, discussed about getting into our bodies in a different way. It’s a full body experience, and, I mean, what a healing thing on its own just to think about what’s happening inside.

Amanda Testa: For sure.

Lisa Townsend: Taking our head out of it and getting into our bodies.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and I’m sure this work that you do also helps people trust their voice more.

Lisa Townsend: That’s it.

Amanda Testa: Right?

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, it’s really remarkable to see people -- I’ll take an example from this week. 

0:29:56

One of my clients, we started a new genre of music, and she’s like, “I know I can hit that note. I’ve hit that note before. Why does it feel so high?” We had to kind of dissect why, for her -- you know, she knows she can hit it, but it was just the technique. It was a set up. Then, in her head, because old scripts are hard to flip, she was still telling herself ‘I can’t hit that note.’ I was like, “We’ve hit it before. Remember this song? Sing that. Remember this song?” You know, we just kind of played around with remembering those moments, and then she thought, ”Okay, yeah, I don’t know why I’m still telling myself that.” It’s a practice. It will, maybe, always be a practice, but, again, we don’t start from scratch every time; we create building blocks to trust what you know, be curious about what you don’t know, and maybe not go to all or nothing thinking: “I can’t do this.” It’s, maybe, more, “I’m having trouble with this in this moment.” Quick reflection: anything why, anything coming up for me? Okay, no, I’ll figure it out later. I’m just gonna work with what I have and trust that I have the tools I need for the moment.

0:31:04

Amanda Testa: Powerful skills.

Lisa Townsend: [Laughs] Powerful. It is, and no one teaches us this. I feel like we come to it on our own. We come with coaching and learning from others, and then this self-reflection piece. A lot of us are in this space of self-reflection; a lot of people are not. 

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: But those who are kind of inquiring, curious, I think there’s a lot to explore here.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: It takes it out of yes, singing, I want singing to be for you, I don’t want it to be performative. That’s not what it’s about. All of these tools we’re talking about with singing apply to speaking, it’s just a really fun, creative way -- and a brave space, you know. There’s a little motivation behind it. When you have the music going, you know, as they say, the show must go on, but in the realm of I have two minutes to do this, self-judgment, there’s no time for that. You’re in the  moment. You’re adjusting in that moment, and think of all the times when you've been, you know, having a conversation and needed to reset and stop yourself and feel comfortable kind of, like, quick, a reset in your mind, reassess, and keep going, but you only have split seconds to do that, and voice work really allows you to practice those moments.

0:32:14

Amanda Testa: Yeah, mm-hmm. I just so appreciate you and all your wisdom that you shared, and I know we could go -- we’ve talked about a lot of different things.

Lisa Townsend: Oh, yeah.

Amanda Testa: But I’m wondering if there’s, maybe, one question that I didn't ask -- to really wish that I would have asked. So anything else that you wanted to share?

Lisa Townsend: Mm, I just really think our voice is one of the most important tools and instruments we have available to us, and I think we’ve spoken about this before, but we’re talking a lot about external voice, but I’d like to also reflect quickly on the internal voice.

Amanda Testa: Yes.

Lisa Townsend: Because we make a lot of decisions, especially as entrepreneurs, and you have to know -- it’s like you have to be comfortable listening to yourself to know when the right time to listen is. 

0:32:58

I think we can all think of a time where we knew what we knew before we knew it, [Laughs] waited too long to take action, and, in some cases -- I mean, I think of that from a relationship perspective where, you know, we have an internal knowing, but if we’re not used to listening to ourselves, we’re not gonna hear ourselves when it matters, and if everyone could, kind of in the sense of owning your voice, know that that means not just what people hear, but what you hear. I don’t know how that would change the world, but I feel like it’s pretty important, and it’s a skill that we don’t talk often enough about.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and just in that vein, is, maybe, there one thing that you could share of how we could better listen to that inner voice and honor it?

Lisa Townsend: I think it does come down to checking in, listening, and just that awareness. I think it could be something you practice really simply with partner or a child. You say something and you think am I just saying that because it’s a script? Am I saying it because it feels right in the moment or would I really like to say something else but I don’t want to take the time to have that conversation right now? 

0:34:03

There’s no wrong answer, but I think the piece of knowing the intention behind, is one of the first steps. And then, finding small places to practice where it’s not a high stakes opportunity, and so, that could be from -- I think about people who always say, you know, where do you want to go for dinner? Where do you want to eat? Do you not know? Do you know? I mean, that sounds so simple, but I think you have to trust the smallest steps. You have to practice in the least -- yeah.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: The least -- just these tiny small ways, and, you know how we have to trust ourselves to make decisions and we have to try small moments of trust? Same thing with our voice.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: That little inkling? Something I should follow? I’m gonna follow it and see what happens. Will the world collapse? If it does, can I trust that, you know, I can bring it back together again. I mean, most often, those small moments are not going to -- the bottom is not gonna fall out.

Amanda Testa: Right.

0:35:00

Lisa Townsend: And if it is uncomfortable because people who are used to communicating with you are not used to hearing you in that way, that is -- again, it has to be a small step. Oh, she’s being extra assertive. Okay. Yeah, I mean, that’s an important thing to practice.

Amanda Testa: Yes. So true, ‘cause so often, you know, people that are conditioned as women in this culture don’t always speak up for what they want or they need. I think that is what’s -- you can just, like, break through with that voice and singing, and right now I’m letting my chest open up because yes, I see that so often, you know, of people just not saying what they want or just pleasing or, you know -- and there’s a lot to that, right? Sometimes there are some things that need to be unwound a little deeper, but still just having these opportunities which is why music is such a beautiful healing way to do that, and be in your body, and enjoy the pleasure of your voice and the sounds that you can make and the different ways you can make them. So yay! [Laughs]

Lisa Townsend: Yes, yes, and know that there are people like you and me out there who want you to be playful and explore your voice.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

0:35:59

Lisa Townsend: Find the people who are non-judgmental. Singing is a tool for you, for so many areas of your life, and it’s up to you -- we all experience music really individually, so it’s not up to me as a coach to tell you how to use your voice, it’s to give you all of the tools you need. That’s what makes it authentic. Once you have your toolbox, you get to choose what feels right to you in the moment, and if we can find ways to drop the judgment and settle into does this feel good, does it resonate, do I feel powerful, do I feel authentic, do I feel like me and not -- yeah, just let’s leave it with that. Do I feel like me, a really good version of me that resonates and buzzes and is excited and passionate? 

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Lisa Townsend: Then, yes, let’s find more opportunities to practice that. You know, whether it’s with music or not, find ways to find that feeling, that little fire inside and follow. Follow that flame. [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: Yes, I love it! Thank you so much, and I’d love, Lisa, if you could just share where everyone can learn more about you and your offerings and how to work with you.

0:37:00

Lisa Townsend: Yeah, well you can find my website at lisatownsendmusic.com. I’m on Instagram @lisatownsendmusic. Facebook is the same, and, as Amanda said, I’m starting a monthly membership for women. We’re using words as intentions. We’re creating musical intentions together. It’s very organic and based on the women who join each week. It’s a live come and start your week here with your voice feeling strong and bold and with other women who also, maybe, have some fears around their voice. Let’s do this together and support one another. And then some group work and some one-on-one work, all different stages of exploration for people.

Amanda Testa: Well, thank you so much again, and I just adore you, and I’m so excited for all that you’re creating, so thank you, Lisa. Thank you for everyone listening, and I’ll make sure to put in the show notes where you can connect with Lisa and learn more about what she has to offer and, also, just inviting you to perhaps use your voice. in some fun ways this week.

0:38:01

Lisa Townsend: Yes, please do!

Amanda Testa: Yes! We will see you next week.

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Amanda Testa: Thank you so much for listening to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa, and if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact me at amandatesta.com/activate, and we can have a heart-to-heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook at the Find Your Feminine Fire group, and if you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends. Go to iTunes and give me a five-star rating and a rating and a raving review so I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself.  Thank you so much for being a part of the community.

[Fun, Empowering Music]