Embodiment As A Route to Empowerment And Agency with Marina Nabão

Amanda Testa (00:02):

Hello everyone, and welcome to the podcast today. I'm very excited for this episode because we're going to be diving into embodiment and nervous system regulation and how this is such a powerful way to regain our, our agency, our personal power. And I have an amazing guest here today, Marina Nabão, who is going to be sharing more because she's an expert in the field. I'm so grateful to have been able to get to know her work over the past few years. And I'm very thrilled to have her today and I'm going to have her introduce herself in a moment, but I just kind of want to just shout out her a little bit, because she's got this beautiful, beautiful transmission in this work and really is so passionate about the power and wisdom of our bodies and finding that what we need within us can, can help us move into these new ways of being, and it's not necessarily like you have to search for healing outside, but it's just finding ways to access that within yourself so that you can live in accordance with your dreams and desires and access the inner resources that are there for us.

Amanda Testa (01:19):

And I've had the pleasure of working with her this past year as we are both on the senior teaching team for Layla Martin's VITA™ year long coaching certification. And I just am always so blown away at her care and her just the depth of her presence. So thank you so much for being here today. Marina. Welcome. Wow.

Marina Nabão (01:38):

Thank you so much. That was a good introduction. My whole body feels it's like, yes, I should be here now. Yes.

Amanda Testa (01:49):

Yeah, yeah. And you know, I'm curious before we dive in. I know that some of the main areas of your work really focus on embodiment coaching and somatic healing. And so I'd love for you to just share a little bit about, you know, why you do what you do. Why are so passionate about it, it's always more fun to hear from you.

Marina Nabão (02:19):

I don't think I can start talking about this without talking a little bit about my own experience with befriending my body. Right. so for me I have always been very curious about life and trying to understand my life, my inner world, the world around me, the relationships I had and everything. My mom is a psychologist. My father was a philosopher. So I think there's this,

Marina Nabão (02:53):

You know, curiosity for life that I actually learned from them or, you know so I've always been into of therapy and I take the lots of modalities talk therapy and somatic based ones and also courses, retreats, things like this books, oh my God books, so many books. But it wasn't until I actually started working intentionally with my body that I, that I got the answers I felt I was looking for. Right. So for me, in my own experience I really engaged with my body through holistic sexuality with Layla Martin who is still is a great teacher for me, someone I adore. And then through that, by connecting with my sexuality, my pleasure with a different focus, which is the embodiment focus and like really connecting with what is going on with the body, befriending it, getting intimate, trying to learn more about sensations , felt sense and then emotions.

Marina Nabão (04:20):

And then thoughts associated to all of that, that I was like, oh my God, I'm here. This is me. It was almost like I could finally see my true self, right. And of course this became a huge passion for me, because for me it was so transformative in the ways that I relate that I relate to myself in the ways that I relate to my pleasure, my sexual pleasure. And there is no way this cannot be translated to the ways that I relate to the world. So in terms of relationships with other guys, I healed so many things. You know, when I learned to notice my body to understand what my body wants, what my body doesn't want, my limits, my boundaries, and being able to communicate that clearly. And I believe that we can only communicate limits and boundaries Clearly once we are clear about them and how that started shifting the guys, I start, I was stating and like dramatically shifts.

Marina Nabão (05:45):

I think that's a topic for a different podcast anyway. And also my relationships to other peoplein my life, friends, family work, I was working in the corporate world. I was, I had a very prosperous and good career as an executive. And I was like, Hmm, this is not fulfilling my needs. This is not fulfilling the desires of my soul anymore. Right. And, and then it made sense for me to start transitioning into a different career in a different path, because I felt so deeply transformed and so deeply, it's not just transformed because I think there is a problem with the words transform. It's almost like you, you stop being who you were, you know, and you morph into something different and that's not what it was for me. For me, it was more an uncovering and finding out deeper layers of my authentic self.

Marina Nabão (07:00):

So it's not transformation itself. It's like seeing beyond my conditioning's my, you know, upbringing, my traumas and unveiling the truth of who I am and that there is so much beauty in it. There's so much potency in it. There's so much power in it. And I'm like, this is what I want to be doing for my life now. And it has been a beautiful transition. I started transitioning in 2018. So I got a certification in ontological coaching, which is amazing in terms of assessing language in emotions and then the VITA Certification, sex love and relationship. And now I'm stuck. I'm going deeper with it because I really feel that sexual trauma is a part of this work that I really wanted to dedicate myself to. And I'm taking the Somatic Experiencing training, which is the cherry on top of all of it. Yeah. So that's how I got here. I hope that answers your question. I

Amanda Testa (08:15):

Love that. Cause I mean, I think it's so interesting because you know, you hear these words all the time, like embodiment and empowerment. And after, you know, sometimes they kind of lose their potency, what that even means. So I always love to get people's perspectives because I think it is such a deep, and rich thing. And sometimes there can be that lack of understanding why it's important. Right. And so, and I love that and I feel like, you know, because yes, you have such a varied beautiful, rich background. I love that curiosity was peaked in you at a young age and, you know, you have an education BA in a business MBA and have, you know, this you know, global, international business thing you were doing then doing this deeper work where it kind of, I love how you described transformation as not like changing who you were, but just uncovering more of your authentic self and allowing that to show up more and more.

Amanda Testa (09:08):

And I just think that's so powerful and beautiful. And also to how you touched on how it makes such a big difference in relationships, because obviously our relationships with our self is pretty important, but it does affect everything around us. Sometimes people can be like, well, why I don't understand why this work is so important. So I love to share, I think it is so key, right? It's a big missing piece. I think that we don't often talk enough about, right. Thankfully I feel like it's becoming more and more talked about now, especially in the past five years, I noticed more and more talk about, you know, how things that have happened to us, leave these imprints on our bodies. Right. And so, and I think too, like, as you say, when we work with sexuality, even just even saying that word so much can come up and I think that's one of the things that I've learned too, is I've gotten more into this work is like the, when you're working around sexuality, there's so much that comes up. And so having those additional layers of, okay, what other things need to be addressed to really feel good and to find pleasure because it does, in my opinion, affects every area of our life. Right. Even though sometimes people can be like, oh, I could do without that. But really I think our true nature wants that pleasure or has, has access to it. Sometimes it's just, we've lost the pathway and we can find it back.

Marina Nabão (10:28):

Yeah. You know, as you're saying this, what is coming up for me is that we experience life through our bodies, right? We don't experience life through our thoughts or language. That's the way we give meaning to the life that we're experiencing. Right. And for me, the embodiment, you know, this big words that I use over and over again, I know I never get tired of it. It's actually coming back. It's not, it's nothing new. We're, we're not re reinventing the wheel here, but we are allowing ourselves to say, wait a minute, I'm here in this planet, in this incarnated experience in a body.

Marina Nabão (11:26):

And everything that I do is experienced through my body, through my five senses through the ways that emotions flow and of course, emotions flow through your body and your sensations that it makes very little sense to me to keep this fragmentation, this, this disconnection of mind, body. And of course spirituality, because also for me, that is a huge component. What, what is the life force that is maintaining this body alive? Right. So for me once we take the time and start walking back into this relationship with our bodies, with this intentionality to be with, to feel, to perceive, and it's not just feel because we're feeling all the time, it's like to perceive what it is that we're feeling to notice how we are affected by life and how our bodies affect the lives of others around us. Right? Once we do that, once we start this journey of embodiment, huge changes start to happen within ourselves. And whenever we start changing our inner landscape, this is going to be shown, and this is going to be translated into the outer world. And the ways that we relate in all kinds of relationships, not only romantic relationships, including relationships to our communities and to the environment, to the earth, right? So for me, there is a piece in embodiement That's not so many people talk about, but that for me is so important because it's also understanding that we are part of this earth that we're killing. I don't know.

Amanda Testa (13:51):

I think that's so true because I mean, the more you're connected to yourself, the more you realize how interconnected everything is. Right. And it, it's a beautiful and sometimes painful experience, but it's so needed because I think we are. And I'd love to hear your perspective on this too, because you know, I'd love to hear you share. Why do you think we get so disconnected from our bodies and our experiences?

Marina Nabão (14:19):

Yeah. I love that question. I think there's so many reasons, historically, there is one big reason, which is the age of I think therefore I exist, you know, the Cartesian thoughts. So historically for me, that's, that is the, how do I say this in English? Like that marks the moment in history when the, at least the Western civilization, this disconnected body in mind. And so I'm a mind, I'm a thinker in, because I think I exist and I say this, Amanda and I have to add a side note to this comment, because I'm not disregarding the importance of thoughts, not at all, you know me well, like I'm an avid reader. I am an avid learner. I love thinking and discussing things. And this is part of life. Yes. A very important piece. But what I'm trying to say here is that also I think therefore I exists.

Marina Nabão (15:47):

I feel therefore I exist. I perceive therefore I exist.. I relate therefore I exist. Right? So I think there are so many layers to our existence that this Cartesian way of thinking disregards. So historically I think the fragmentation started there. And then if we take it to our daily lives nowadays to our regular Western life, the amount of stress, overwhelm, pollution, violence, fear, fear for survival, fear of not having money enough to survive traumas, so many different layers to traumas. All of this also contributes to this disfragmentation, to this separation of body and mind. Right? And I think that's part of this epidemic of this environment that we perceive in the world is also a result of the ways that we're leaving our lives. This go, go, go, go, go. We have to be doing all the time. We have to achieve all the time we have, especially. And I know so many of your clients are high performers in their careers or, or even moms who are like, I have to be the perfect mom, you know, sick people who have to get it all right. Right. So this is for your listener who has to get it all right and perfect.

Marina Nabão (17:37):

Slow down, you know, come back to the body because sometimes thinking that we have to get it all right, is a trap of our minds. Right. And if we're able to involve our bodies and spirituality in this process and walk more whole thru life where we get things wrong, there is this space in ourselves that can accept that in this space is usually not the mind. It's the heart, you know, it's the soul. So for me, yeah. I think, I think that answers your question. Why are we so disembodied? There's a history there, and there is a way of living the disconnection from nature, the disconnection from communities. Everybody is so isolated this age of the individual, right. It's me, me, me, me, me. No, it's not me, me, me, me, me, it's us, us, us, us. Right. So I think all of that contributes to that. Yeah.

Amanda Testa (18:51):

So true. And I, you know, and it is, it's like the more the stress and the external like, feeling like you need to be constantly doing that leaves no space for the being. Right. So it's like trying to cultivate space for that, you know, the functional slow, which can be really hard at first, especially cause I know for myself, that's my background too, is like, I always default to like super hyper anxious. Like my, so first starting to slow down can feel like scary. You're like, oh wait. And I'm going to feel things. And that's kind of what you work through. Right. That's how you help clients work through that. Right. Okay.

Marina Nabão (19:35):

Yes. And it's no longer a scary thing, right Amanda? If we have spent a lifetime living this way, not paying attention to our bodies, to our sensations and emotions, to the felt sense of our experience. To the somatic experience of life. You know, it is scary because then it's like, oh, I'm not used to this. Right. I'm not used to noticing all of, all of the richness that is going on all the time in my experience of this life. Right. And, but, but for me, it's like, yeah, it's a scary in an exciting way perhaps, you know, like, yeah, it's a scary, but let's explore this and see what we find out. Right? Yeah.

Amanda Testa (20:31):

Because it is so nourishing when you can like expand your experience. And I like to think of that because it's, you're just flying by missing so much. And when you can actually drop in and learn to just fully inhabit your present experience, whatever that is, it's so much more beautiful. And even if it's a horrible thing, it's like, at least you can feel it and move through it much more easily than feeling that sense of overwhelm or that stress or the trauma like weighing on you. You're able to more easily find a way to, to let it move through or to, to integrate it or to allow it to, to kind of thaw a bit.

Marina Nabão (21:12):

Yeah. And at the end of the day, what comes up for me is to be able to be with life itself. Right. And life is made of death, is made of loss is made of celebrations is made of gains. And if we're able to find within us a way to be with life in all the ways that it presents itself to us, then we have so much more resilience. We have so much more power. We have so much more ways of engaging with life. Right. So what I think, what I'm trying to say is embodiment, and really not as seeing the whole somatic experience of who we are at the end of the day is a pathway to vitality, to strengthening our capacity, to be with life and deal with life. Because, you know, life is life. It's not all like colorful and, you know, glittery, but sometimes it is, which is great. And some other times we have a world pandemic and all the consequences of that, you know, and if we try to think ourselves through all of this, I find it that we get a little limited and that we, we lack rresources and repertoire to deal with the complexity, the beauty and the harshness of life. Yeah.

Amanda Testa (23:15):

I think that's so powerful ,even just, as you say that, it makes me think because I, there is a little bit of, you know, as you mentioned before, the more we're in tune with our own experience, the more we realize we are part of this us, and it's that interconnected piece that you can't not want to support. Right. Because I think there's, you know, obviously if you are there layers, I feel like sometimes it's like these different layers bloom, and I love how Rachael Maddox, one of my mentors talks about that in the Rebloom work ,it's like you have to work through these different levels. And then the highest level is the sacred gardener where you're really looking out for the entire garden. And you really realize how every single thing you do affects the whole and how can I contribute to a more lush garden overall. And so I think that's one of the beauties of this work too, is it helps you get to that point where you can, you know, not only be so authentic in your own expression, but to be more aware and a contributor to a more healthy whole

Marina Nabão (24:19):

Yeah. Yes, yes.

Amanda Testa (24:22):

And it can make sense when there's days where you're struggling with some things and you can't even like, get your clothes on. Like how can you think about making the world a better place? You're like, I can't even get my clothes on today. Right. So this is part of that process, I think. Yes. Curious how that lands.

Marina Nabão (24:38):

Yeah. And what comes up to me is this whole idea of making a world a better place, meaning that I need to intentionally every day, do some thing for others for, you know, and I think that that's a, quite a naive way of looking at this cause making a world a better place is finding this better place within ourselves, which naturally will contribute because no one alone will make the world a better place. Right. We're just little we're just stardust this here. So it will contribute to making a world, the world a better place. And it doesn't matter if our, our work, for example, is not focused on helping the world become a better place, but our, the quality of our presence when we are in our work and we are interacting with other people, regardless of what it is that we do, the quality of our embodied presence is enough to affect the environment around us, you know, and that is making the world a better place. That's it?

Amanda Testa (26:08):

I, so I so agree with that. And I think about that too, because especially a lot of times I work with moms and I, you know, how important it is to find that place within you and just when your quality of presence is more resilient and more loving and more compassionate to yourself that it's so much easier to offer that to those around you. And there's such a ripple effect of that, right? So just even doing this work for yourself does make that difference in the ripple.

Marina Nabão (26:41):

Yeah. And Amanda, if we think about how our nervous systems work, we're animals, right? We're animals, we think we're better, but we are animals at the end of the day. So when we are in a better regulated space, you know, when we're more grounded in our bodies, in our experience, people can sense that's, that's the co-regulation thing that happens, right? So when a mom is taking care of their children in a place of groundedness and love and presence feeling good enough, not perfect feeling good enough within herself or themselves naturally it's effortless, it's effortless. There is nothing to be done. It's just to be, and naturally, others will perceive that and will benefit. It's not just perceive it. Well, they will benefit from that. Right? No wonder, whenever we talk about embodiment and somatics there is this focus on like you need to practice, right? It requires practice. You need, it's not just about knowing about embodiment. It's not just about knowing about somatics. It's about embodying embodiment embodying somatics, making this a way of living and then experience the shifts of your mere presence in with someone else. Right. Because that's the level of resonance, that's our nervous systems have that has to know what the survival of humankind. Right. So it's about just being in, creating the conditions for that to settle and happen.

Amanda Testa (28:50):

And I love the practice part because that is such a key piece. And I'd love to hear you share what are some of your favorite practices to nourish your own self and nervous system and all the things?

Marina Nabão (29:02):

Yeah. Well, I have my go to things, so I have a lot of energy going on in my body all the time. So I, I need to exercise. That's something that is like, yeah. So almost every morning I will exercise. I have my soul cycle bike, so I will bike. And then I do some strengthening exercises and things like that is that for me, it's medicine. And I also really enjoy being out in nature. So I will just sit if I'm here at home, I will just sit at the garden and be, and again, nothing to do, just be, you know, play with my dog, notice the squirrels, the animals around and so on. And then when I feel that I want something more structured, I have all kinds of practices and tools in my, in my toolbox. Right? So pleasure practices. The Jade Egg is like the love of my life.

Marina Nabão (30:12):

So I will do a Jade egg practice. Sometimes I will do energy practices with like, from the Taoists traditions. And many, many times it's just around being with myself intentionally. So if I'm noticing that I'm too restless or too irritated with things, I just sit down and track my body, track my experience. What is going on here? What are some sensations that I'm noticing that are present, where is this restlessness, this irritation, where do I feel it? Oh, here. Oh, okay. Let me befriend this and just be with it for a moment. And the, the interesting thing about our bodies in the nervous system is that there is a component that self heals, we just need to give the opportunity, you know? So if I'm noticing like some pain on my chest, that is like, I'm angry about something. If I can just be with that for a moment and see, oh, I noticed this, this is here. It feels heavy. It feels cold. It looks like it looks like it's made of iron, like a ball of iron on my chest. Let me be in breathe. Huh? I wonder what, what is this doing here?

Marina Nabão (31:56):

And I just stay with it and it's it. It's just like magic as I stay with it. It's slowly starts to soften, soften into deliver a message to me. And then there's a thoughts and image, you know, it's almost like a whisper of something that I needed to become aware of. That can be helpful for me. So for me, apart from the structured practices that I liked that I have, but that I don't always have the time to stop and do a one hour pleasure practice or like that. It's just this presence and intentionality you see, because what I'm saying is I notice, and then I bring my intention to be with it.

Marina Nabão (32:54):

And then the curiosity of getting clear around what it is, and then holding that with compassion. Oh, I see you here. I don't like this. It makes me feel uncomfortable, but I will sit here with you, you know, and then that's it, that's the healing, but that quality of presence is not natural to most of us. So that quality of presence requires practice. So nowadays I can do that very easily for myself because for the last three years I've been doing that constantly, you know, with guidance, with audios from my teachers, with, you know, in courses and workshops and trainings. And now I'm in this place where I can do this for myself. Right. And that's what I offer. So many of my clients, this let's walk this path together for a while until you're able to do this for yourself. You know,

Amanda Testa (34:12):

Like you say, it's the developing that ability to do it, it's like learning a new language sometimes, right. To be able to be with our bodies, body sensations, and what's coming up and understanding how to track it and just have that compassion for what's coming up. And, you know, something you mentioned earlier, I just wanted to refer back to, because I think it is so powerful is that self-healing ability that we all have, you know, like we have this original essence or blueprint of health or this, just whatever you want to call it. That's core of us that is pure and perfect and nothing can ever touch it. And so having the conditions to be able to access that, and sometimes it takes working with the experienced guide and coach, or teacher to learn how to do it. But it's so beautiful to witness when someone connects to that and watching that part, like get stronger and just, it's so incredible to me, I'm always so humbled when I watched that blueprint in someone come alive, Im like OMG it's so amazing, And it's so possible for everyone. And you know, under the right conditions when you can have that ability to tune into it.

Marina Nabão (35:25):

Yeah. And in a way, Amanda, it's revolutionary

Marina Nabão (35:31):

Because this is about people tapping into their inner power again. Their agency, their potency, their life force their vitality. And that's the revolution. The revolution is not tapping into power to subjugate others. The revolution is about seeing, allowing yourself to see that you are powerful, that you have it all in you, even your capacity to heal yourself from life. I talk a lot about trauma and I work a lot with trauma, but it is so important for us to remember that everyone carries trauma because trauma is part of life. Some people have traumas that were more shocking, more significant, right. But if we think about intergenerational trauma, how can you avoid it that right? Developmental trauma, how can you avoid that? Even if you have amazing parents. Right? So, and then if we're able to find ways to tap into this inner, powerful selves, then we have that repertoire. That's a word that I like to deal with again, the harshness of life and also to embrace the beauty, the sexiness, the sensuality of life, because life is so sensual. No wonder we have so many senses to experience life, no wonder our senses are in our bodies and still we want to leave the body outside of the equation. How how's that possible? Right. So, yeah, it is beautiful and it's humbling. And it's also empowering.

Marina Nabão (37:55):

Yeah.

Amanda Testa (37:57):

I mean, even as you saying that, I just noticed like my whole body just felt softened and I just had this like warmth coming from my solar plexus. I'm like, ah, it feels so good to just even I think being in your presence, I just feel my own nervous system relaxing even more. And I love this possibility and I think that that's why it's such beautiful, powerful, revolutionary work. So I'd love to know, you know, is there any question that you wished that I would've asked that I didn't ask or any, anything else that you want to, to share around this?

Marina Nabão (38:40):

I do. I think, I think I want to say a couple more things around empowerment and agency, especially for folks who have experienced trauma in that are feeling trapped into the the symptoms, the responses, you know, that are resulting from traumatic experiences. And one of the things that I find so important to highlight in this conversation around trauma is that we do have this inner capacity to integrate, to resolve, to renegotiate. There are so many words that we can use here, right? To overcome, to heal traumas. We do have this inner capacity. So for me, the path of embodiment, the path of somatic healing is really about awakening this flame of power that we all have to overcome. The things that we have experienced, you know, and to break ourselves free from the chains of traumas. Because for me, the image, I'm a very visual person.

Marina Nabão (40:08):

People who worked with me know that because I say that all the time. So there's an image that comes to me when I use the word trauma in the image that comes to me, it's someone chains stuck in chains, right? So for me, the path to liberation from trauma is the path of learning to unchain yourself and any healer, coach, therapist, teacher, whatever that is working with people who, who are trying to do this needs to know that it's not about the healer, the coach, the therapist, it's about igniting awakening, that inner power that we all have and providing the container, the tools, the techniques, the ways, the teachings in which the person sees that they have that power and then they break free. And then it's, and this is especially for my beloved ones who have experienced sexual trauma and then the survivor wins, not the perpetrator. And for me, it's about this, you know, it's bad enough to have experienced sexual trauma, sexual abuse, but it's even worse to stay stuck in that. So my work is to help the survivor win here, you know, and the survivor will win with their own power, with their own potency and with their own life force with their own vitality, because we all have it in us. Yeah. So I think that's what I wanted to say.

Amanda Testa (42:16):

Yeah. Look at the chill bumps on my arms. Oh, so powerful. So Marina, can you share where people can connect with you and how they can work with you and yes. All that good stuff.

Marina Nabão (42:27):

Of course. So I am Brazilian living in the bay area and I see folks here in my office in Mill Valley. I also see folks internationally because I work with a community that is spread worldwide. Then I do that online, the best place to get information about me, to learn more about the work I do is my website. So I'm a little old school I prefer to fit, like to fill my websites with information vs. Social media and that's www.Marinanabao.com I think you're going to provide a link for people. And I'm also on Instagram sometimes not every day, but every week I'm on Instagram as @MarinaNabão. As well, the link will be here. Ufor those of you wanting to work with me, I offer a free session,uwhich is not a free session. It's a free initial conversation for us to get to know each other, see if with vibes. See if what I have to offer is what you're looking for before you make up your mind, all the information is there on my website, You can even schedule your free session there.

Amanda Testa (43:42):

And I'll make sure to put the links in the show notes. And also the transcription is always available at the bottom of the page. So, well, I just appreciate you so much, Marina, thank you so much for all your wisdom and for gracing the listeners with your presence today.

Marina Nabão (44:02):

Thank you. I, I, I feel so honored to be on your podcast and it's so good to be working side by side with you. I feel so privileged with that, and I really hope that people benefit from this conversation because I think that we shared important things here. So thank you so much for everybody listening. Yes.

Amanda Testa (44:23):

Thank you all. And we will see you next week.