Burnout Recovery with Michelle Emmanuelle

EPISODE 207: with Michelle Emmanuelle

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Amanda Testa: Hello, and welcome to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. I am your host, Amanda Testa. I am a sex, love, and relationship coach, and in this podcast, my guests and I talk sex, love, and relationships, and everything that lights you up from the inside out. Welcome!

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the podcast today. I am really excited about this topic today because I think this is something that so many deal with and we don’t often talk about. Really, what I think can happen a lot around this issue of burnout, as we will dive into, is that we are so conditioned to work hard, and do and do, and go and go, and not really listen to our body’s needs or, oftentimes, we just can't because of the structures that we live in, to be able to take the time we need to care for ourselves. And so, I’m really looking forward to talking today with Michelle Emmanuelle. Welcome so much, Michelle.

Michelle Emmanuelle: Thank you so much for having me, Amanda. I’m happy to be here with you.

Amanda Testa: Yes, and she specializes in burnout recovery, and so, I am gonna have her share a little bit more about her journey in a moment but, really, I think what I love about bringing this topic into the light more often is because so often once we can talk about it and understand that there’s actually many types of burnout. 

0:01:17

There’s actually over, I think, eight kinds of burnout did you say, Michelle?

Michelle Emmanuelle: Yes, I mean, there’s probably more. I identify eight in my programs, so I’m sure there are more, but the eight is what I talk about.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and just how it really affects us and what we can do about it. So listen in, make yourself comfortable, and I’d love for you, if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit, Michelle, about what made you so passionate about this work that you're doing now.

Michelle Emmanuelle: Great question. You know, I feel like it’s definitely been a cumulative process for me. I have been in different industries over time, and I’ve experienced it myself not realizing what it was, just the constant fatigue and the constant drain. I left what I was doing -- I was actually hired as a yoga and wellness fitness instructor at a high school in Oakland, and I created their wellness program, and that’s when I started to actually start to see the impact of stress and burnout and the high cost that it was actually costing people in terms of their livelihoods, their relationships, my students. 

0:02:23

From there, I went into becoming a wellness coach and wanted to really help people to recover from that and just realizing that there were limitations that I could do within the school system, and I felt like there’s some areas that I really feel like I can help people have that recovery and recognizing it as more long term. And so, I decided -- I was doing some of that on the side just in terms of supporting my friends and my colleagues, and I felt like this is something that is really necessary and people really need to understand the impact. I mean, people can actually be hospitalized. The impact is huge. It’s not just ugh, I’m tired, but the physical impact of burnout is very serious and needs to be taken seriously.

0:03:03

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and I’m wondering if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit more what some of the symptoms are of burnout.

Michelle Emmanuelle: Well, you know, that’s the interesting thing is that [Laughs] it really does depending on the type of burnout, but, typically, in general it’s brain fog and lack of concentration, irritability, consistent fatigue, depression, constant sense of anxiety, lack of sense of control, loss of sense of purpose and meaning in life. Oh, the list goes on. In terms of emotional, there’s just, like I said, irritability, lack of bandwidth, capacity to deal with one more thing.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Michelle Emmanuelle: Also that feeling of stuck, there’s just nothing else. You’re just on this treadmill, and there’s just nothing else but that. 

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Michelle Emmanuelle: Like I said, that’s a long list, but those are the generalities of how they can show up in the body. Lack of sleep -- sleep is also a huge one because poor sleep is a big factor in burnout as well.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and what do you think are some of the reasons that it’s so prevalent nowadays?

0:04:03

Michelle Emmanuelle: Well, I think, honestly, it’s our culture. We live in a grind culture where productivity and performance are valued and rewarded and honored in many cases at whatever the expense. There are bonuses, promotions, accolades, respect, and all those things that are actually accompanying these performance-based things that are very transactional and not sustainable, you know? So it’s been built into our culture where that’s what we value. I think now we’re getting to the time, particularly with everything with COVID, we’re starting to realize, you know, this isn't worth it. I think that’s what a lot of people are realizing for themselves. Organizations are definitely seeing this mass exodus of people like if you’re not taking care of me and my mental health, my physical health, then I’m not able to stay. 

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Michelle Emmanuelle: Just recognizing the cost that it’s really not worth paying.

0:05:01

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and it’s so true especially -- and I know working in corporate. You mentioned you work with a lot of corporations, and I think, too, in those environments, at least something I’m seeing now which is a good thing is that people are paying more attention to mental health --

Michelle Emmanuelle: Absolutely

Amanda Testa: -- and to wellness.

Michelle Emmanuelle: They are, absolutely, which is really good. That’s why, basically, I’ve pivoted in terms of how I’m presenting the burnout workshops because before I was like healthcare, wellness, and wellness sometimes felt like they thought I was talking about yoga, and they were like, well, we’re not really into that kind of thing. And so, what I’m really trying to help people understand, particularly organizations and corporations, is burnout recovery is basically helping the culture thrive. 

Amanda Testa: Yes.

Michelle Emmanuelle: You know, so my focus is working with organizations and corporations that are people-centered cultures, and my support is by offering the burnout workshops to help those cultures to thrive. So the outcome is basically what they want, but it’s also something that’s gonna help the culture. 

0:06:02

And so, it’s not just like okay, here’s a one-off workshop on mental health, now get back to work. [Laughs] You know, it’s already partnering with organizations that have that values system of being a people-centered organization and really caring about people first, recognizing that it’s the people that’s gonna bring the productivity. It’s the people, you know, that bring the innovation, that bring the changes. It’s not necessarily the data, it’s the people behind the data.

Amanda Testa: Yes, so, so powerful. I’m wondering, too, ‘cause wellness, like you say, can mean so many things, what does wellness mean to you?

Michelle Emmanuelle: Great question. It’s so funny ‘cause it changes depending on my life. After two years in COVID with everyone else, I feel like my answer is really lifestyle, you know? Before, I would say something like wellness practices, selfcare, and all those things are still true, but wellness really is a lifestyle. It really is. It’s the long haul. It’s taking my health, my mental health, my emotional health, physical health seriously enough to be consistent, and practicing and feeding myself, and doing different things that are really gonna support that quality of life that I desire. So wellness is basically how I live, you know?

0:07:17

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and I love how -- it’s interesting because I’m, you know -- as more and more people become aware of wanting to contribute to more of a lifestyle that is feasible and that is less draining, if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit more about kind of the different types of burnout. I know you focus on eight, so I’d love to hear more about those if you don't mind.

Michelle Emmanuelle: Sure, sure. I am gonna tell you all about this. When I heard this, I thought it was amazing ‘cause I have always heard burnout workshops -- burnout based in very generalities -- tired, fatigue, and so, when I actually started researching I was surprised. So there are seven that are identified, and I actually added another one which makes eight, but there’s physical burnout, mental, emotional, spiritual, social, sensory, and creative. 

0:08:07

The eighth one that I’ve added is also burnout due to systemic oppression which is a very real type of burnout. So those are the eight that I identified.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Michelle Emmanuelle: Again, I’m sure there may be more, but these are the most common, and, like I said, number eight I’ve added as well.

Amanda Testa: That’s a very real important one. 

Michelle Emmanuelle: It is. 

Amanda Testa: I’m wondering if you would be open to sharing a little bit more about each of those.

Michelle Emmanuelle: Absolutely.

Amanda Testa: Or what you can do to support yourself or find the resources that you need to work through them.

Michelle Emmanuelle: Yes, I think that one of the things that I actually try to include in the workshops is just people having that physical awareness of what’s happening in their bodies, you know? So it’s not just the cognitive, like, okay, I have the knowledge, but also the awareness of how do they know that they’re actually experiencing this? 

So a lot of times a person might be going to bed super early and still wake up completely drained and tired, but maybe they’re not physically burned out, you know? 

0:09:06

So I think the important thing is just to recognize where that is coming from -- you know, the source -- so that they can have the appropriate recovery and rest to support them.

Amanda Testa: I just want to share a little bit. I think that is so true about the physical part because so often we are disconnected to what’s happening in our bodies or we are too busy to think about it or we’ve been taught not to. You know, even just sitting at your desk working and saying I need to go to the bathroom, but I’ve got to finish this email and not doing it, right?

Michelle Emmanuelle: [Laughs] I can hold it!

Amanda Testa: But, I mean, I know too, because not only with all your experience in teaching and facilitating, you’re also a dancer and a certified yoga teacher and have done a lot of work around that too, so I’m curious how that affects your connection to this.

Michelle Emmanuelle: It affects it powerfully, honestly, Amanda, because what I’ve been learning in my trainings -- and I’m the consistent student. I’m always in some training program like whoa, and nerding out. 

0:10:00

One of the things I love to nerd out about is the brain and the neuroscience behind things. So what I do, in terms of supporting people in their recovery process, is I think it’s so important that people understand how their body works, you know? As you mentioned, I come from a background of being a professional dancer, and from there I went into yoga and it’s been a very circuitous route, you know, to get here today, but I just realized how important the somatic or the physical practices are as part of the recovery process because we actually -- our lived experiences live in our body. So it’s important that our recovery actually includes physical practices to decode these habitual patterns that have been in our bodies called biobehavioral patterns, so we need to actually include those physical practices to decode that so then we can encode new practices that are gonna be signaling our body towards rest, restoration, safety, and relaxation.

0:10:58

An example of that is just simply breath. Breath is the most accessible way to down-regulate our nervous system, bring us into a space of peace and calm. So part of the practices that I include in all the workshops is supporting people and helping them have accessible practices that they can do and they can access at any time, they don’t have to find another 20 minute in their day, you know? I tell people, “I’m not asking you to add something; I’m actually asking you to include it into what’s already there,” you know? Sometimes the practices are literally 60 seconds. We always have 60 seconds, you know? We can pause in between something just to take a breath, you know, or even just pausing. 

So yeah, absolutely, the physical practices are very important, and I’m currently in a somatic training -- [Laughs] one of many -- that’s just very mirrored with the neuroscience of everything because we actually have neurotransmitters throughout our entire body, not just in our brain, you know? So it’s important to really understand how that’s really happening, you know, in the systems and how this is showing up in our bodies in terms of our nervous system and how that’s impacting our health over time.

0:12:09

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Michelle Emmanuelle: I can go on, so I’m gonna pause [Laughs] and take a breath.

Amanda Testa: Yes, yes. Yes.

Michelle Emmanuelle: [Breath out]

Amanda Testa: Yeah, so you were saying just the importance of being able to tune into what’s happening physically so then you know okay, I’m going to bed early, and I’m waking up so exhausted, but maybe it’s not my physical body. That, potentially, it could be one of the other many, many ways that burnout shows up.

Michelle Emmanuelle: To be honest with you, I think the past two years, all of us are, in some varying aspects, mentally and emotionally burned out, you know? I think that just because of all that we’ve experienced -- the loss, the grief, the changes, the unknown -- that takes a toll over time. And so, I feel that’s definitely something that people have had -- should have some kind of awareness around and, again, that emotional burnout can show up as impatience, increased fear and anxiety, that sense of constant overwhelm, decreased motivation, self criticism, decreased focus; and then mental is lack of focus, that mind fog that I mentioned earlier, memory recall, the busy mind is also something that is pretty consistent in mental burnout, those repetitive thoughts (especially when it’s time to go to bed just cannot turn your brain off).

0:13:23

So there are definitely practices that can help support those. those are just some examples of how those two -- and I think, again, because of the times that we’ve lived through and we’re still in in some ways (in many ways, really), emotional and mental burnout is -- like I said, to varying degrees, I believe that we are all in some form of that right now just because of the longevity of still trying to figure out what’s happening in the world, right, and watching awful things continue to happen in the world currently. So that wears on our nervous system as well. Again, having practices that are going to support recovery and also having awareness of how that’s showing up in our bodies is really helpful and essential for people to have that sense of rest and calm, and so, to avoid the negative impacts that will prolong burnout.

0:14:10

Amanda Testa: I definitely feel that collective traumatic thing that we’ve all been living in for so long. Not just with COVID, but just the way things are. So it is sometimes hard to find the ways to focus on yourself when everything feels overwhelming, so I love how you really focus on the micro things people can do.

Michelle Emmanuelle: Absolutely. I’m a big fan of micro, you know? I heard this quote that I really, really loved by Arianna Huffington and her definition of micro steps, and she says that micro is too small to fail, and I love that because we tend to set goals like okay, I’m gonna do this and such, and then when we don’t do it there’s that sense of failure and whatever, but the micro is too small to fail, so it can be just hey, I’m going to pause once today to take a breath. That’s a micro step. If you forget by the end of the day, that’s okay. You’re laying in bed, pause then, you know?

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

0:15:05

Michelle Emmanuelle: It’s easy just to push the reset button and start again, you know? I think that’s why I’m such a fan of the accessibility because the accessibility creates the sustainability of it, you know?

Amanda Testa: Yes.

Michelle Emmanuelle: It’s easier to keep that consistency happening. So if it feels like too big of an ask, when a person is burned out, anything is too big of an ask, really, you know? So what’s the easiest entry point for a person to start their recovery process, and that’s what I really try to focus on, you know? It’s like you can take a breath, you can pause, let’s do this right now, you know? I’m a big person on data, so I love people to actually start to create their own sense of data, so we do, like, a before and after. Like, hey, write down how you're feeling. We’ll do this practice now. Write down -- oh, and now you have a compare and contrast. You can see the impact of it. 

I like to also bring about a new way. I time things for people because I like to really debunk that mindset that there’s no time. It’s like guess what, that took 60 seconds, that took 90 seconds, that took 2 minutes, you know, just to show that there’s time, and look at the difference, and that’s why I have people write things down or something like that because they get a chance to -- they’ve created their own data. 

0:16:16

They've written down what their experience is prior to the exercise and afterwards. It’s something that they can do themselves. it’s not a big huge teaching moment for me, it’s just like an offering and a guidance of what they can do.

Amanda Testa: I love that. I think, too, you know, it just makes me think when someone is very overwhelmed -- ‘cause I know in experiences in my life where I’ve been burned out. It’s just even something little feels like a lot, so I love that reminder of yeah, it’s really only 60 seconds.

Michelle Emmanuelle: Absolutely.

Amanda Testa: And it’s so small you can remember it. Even if you just forgot it and it’s 11 P.M. and you’re finally remembering, you can take a breath in that moment. Yes, I love that. Yeah, and so, I’m wondering, then, when it comes to the emotional aspect how that shows up.

Michelle Emmanuelle: You know, the emotional  -- interestingly, the emotional burnout is one of the types of burnout that has the biggest impact on our physical body because emotions are really regulated by the brain. 

0:17:09

And so, again, that can show up as that sense of overwhelm and depression and anxiety and hopelessness. It can show up as irritability and just a sense of -- I think, really, overall, it’s that sense of drain, that feeling like there’s bandwidth, you know, where it just feels like -- you know, actually what it shows up as is what we were discussing -- that sense of, like, “Oh, Amanda, I have this one thing I’d like you to do,” and that feeling like, “Oh, please don't ask me to do that.” That right there is an example of how emotional burnout shows up. Like, “Ugh, I can’t. Please don't ask me that.” It just triggers something in our system that says, “No, I’m at maximum already.” So that’s an example of that emotional burnout as well. ‘Cause if a person were to pause and say, “How do you know that you can't, what does that feel like?” Then they start recognizing that in their body. Their first response is, “No, no, no, I’m too overwhelmed. I can’t.” But really, it’s being triggered by something, and it’s usually that sense of -- there’s an emotion attached to it, and that emotion is usually attached to, as I mentioned before, some kind of biobehavioral pattern that we -- an example is, like, a person who has their shoulders constantly a little bit raised towards your ears. If you lift your shoulders up a little bit rather than that relaxed feeling, that gesture of raising the shoulders up is a pattern of anxiety, and over time the shoulders can just kind of stay in that pattern. 

0:18:33

Even if the person’s not in a situation that is anxiety-ridden, it’s still neurologically transmitting as anxiousness to the body, you know? So that’s what I was talking about, having those physical practices to decode those patterns. For example, breath -- helping that awareness and go okay, let me pause for a moment. Let me relax, you know? And so, encoding something new. So yeah, the emotions are really very powerful and super important to have that awareness in terms of how to support oneself when they start recognizing that, you know, and just recognizing oh, well, I just bit that person’s head off, you know? And just like okay, let me pause for a moment, and I use that word a lot, the pausing and breath because it’s the most accessible and easiest way. 

0:19:21

There are many, many practices that will support emotional burnout recovery. Breath is one of them, and I offer that first always because everybody knows how to do it. [Laughs] There’s very little teaching in that. It’s simply like take a pause, maybe notice your exhale, you know? One of the things I practice and I offer people is just counting their exhales, and even that process, people start noticing first they're counting, they're counting fast because their breath is shallow and quick, and then by numbers 20 and up, the counting starts to go slower because the exhales are longer, you know? And so, super simple things like that that can just support, and also the breath is what happens in the brain, and the brain signals the body that oh, it’s safe. If I can pause for breath, then I’m safe. That safety is gonna actually send out many more neurotransmissions to the body as saying oh, it’s okay, you can relax now. 

0:20:15

So, again, that’s why I offer breath as the first one, just because it’s accessible and it’s powerful

Amanda Testa: I love breath so much. It is, and it’s right there at the fingertips at all times. It is. When you are able to slow down your breath it can do so much to stimulate that parasympathetic nervous system and calm you down. It doesn't take long.

Michelle Emmanuelle: It doesn't. It’s 60 seconds [Laughs] or less but…

Amanda Testa: Yeah, these are beautiful tips, and I love how simple they are. Then I’m wondering when it comes to if you feel okay to maybe dive into a couple more of these that you feel like are important to note and what people can do for some of the other types of burnout here.

Michelle Emmanuelle: Let’s see. [Breath out] I’m gonna try to generalize some, because there are some that support just the specifics and others that don’t. A practice that I feel is really supportive of everything is a grounding practice. 

0:21:07

A grounding practice is, basically, a way of bringing one’s attention to the present moment, and so, a grounding practice can look like, again, just taking a moment to pause and just feeling one's feet on the ground and noticing what is touching what. So noticing their feet on the ground, noticing their back body touching and leaning back against a chair. Doing that, noticing where the arms are resting, and this is a really great practice because it not only brings a person to the present moment, but it brings a person connection back to their bodies.

So a lot of times the result of burnout is this disconnection to one’s body because we go into what is called armoring or dissociation like numbness, and that lack of mind-body connection is pretty much disconnected, really. And so, this grounding practice is a way to just bring a person back into their body and, again, just noticing what’s touching the ground, noticing what’s supporting the body if the person’s sitting down, just noticing what’s supporting their weight, and just feeling that weight in the chair, the couch, the ground, whatever it is that they’re sitting on. This also can be done standing. 

0:22:16

Again, there are some people that I work with who have standing desks, and so, you know, we just pause for a moment just like okay, with your arms down, hands just resting by your side, and just notice your feet on the ground, noticing your shoulders relaxing. I have them lower their hands to their sides because that’s the most relaxed position. If their hands are anywhere else on their body, there’s some muscle involved in holding that position, but when the arms relax, the shoulders naturally relax as well, you know? So I think that to be a really helpful practice and offering to people because, again, when we bring ourselves to the present moment, we start to recognize okay, what is happening right now because the patterns of burnout is, you know, this sense of anxiety or whatever it is, that heightened cortisol that’s just constantly going in that stress moment, but bringing one’s self into the present moment actually even just scanning and looking around the room, there’s something also definitely connected with the eyes and the vision and stress, so relaxing the gaze helps the body to relax. Our eyes are also direct pathways to the brain. Not to nerd out on that, but it’s super interesting.

0:23:26

So that would be another practice, I would say, that’s beneficial to any type of burnout -- physical, emotional, mental, creative, spiritual. Spiritual, I wanted to say, when I say spiritual burnout, that’s that sense of purpose and meaning. So it’s not connected with any particular religion, it’s just a sense of purpose and meaning, and the social burnout -- I just want to explain that one a little bit -- that we are social beings, you know? I think during the shelter in place we really were impacted by how much connection is important to us, you know? That’s part of what we need as human beings: connection, safety and belonging, you know? So we don't have that sense of strong connection, and we can be in the midst of many people and still not have that sense of connection, you know? So that’s a type of burnout as well.

0:24:12

The grounding practice is a way, again, just to reconnect with our bodies, bring us into that present moment, down-regulate our nervous system to a place of peace and calm, and the breath will naturally follow, you know? That’s something that -- sometimes breath work is a little bit hard for people, and they just feel like, “Ah, I feel like I’m forcing it,” or, “I don't want to do this.” It’s like, “Okay, let’s just stand here, “ or “Let’s just sit and just notice.” Just taking our attention and noticing what we typically wouldn't take time to notice is a support.

Amanda Testa: I love that. Just the simple noticing and using the eyes and the orientation and how that can affect how your body feels.

Michelle Emmanuelle: Completely.

Amanda Testa: Right, and it makes so much sense when you think about if you're always feeling like you’re hyper-vigilant or alert all the time, and so many times, if we’re working on a computer all day we’re just, like, so zoomed in. We don't use our eyes like we would, you know, the way we’re meant to use them.

Michelle Emmanuelle: Exactly. Yes, our eyes are actually a stress indicator to the body. When a person is stressed, the vision gets very narrow and very focused, and that’s part of our fight, flight. Our survival mode is, like, what do I need to do? It’s zeroing in, you know? 

0:25:17

So relaxing our gaze and just focusing and allowing the peripheral vision to engage and kinda noticing what are we seeing with our peripheral vision? What are we seeing, and just kind of taking in the whole surroundings is literally signaling our system of safety because it’s relaxing that narrow-focused vision, that laser focus that happens during stressful times. That, again, super simple, very accessible, and literally is sending a signal to our bodies that oh, it’s okay. I’m safe. I can relax my eyes, so there must be a place that I can rest now, you know? So that’s really helpful.

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and I’m wondering, too, out of all the -- when you do these workshops, what do you feel like is the number one thing people appreciate most when they walk away? What is the feedback you get from people?

Michelle Emmanuelle: You know, two things: one, people tend to be really surprised that there are so many different types of burnout, so a lot of the feedback straight away is this, like, “Oh, that’s so much better. That’s so much more helpful, “ because a lot of times, taking a vacation or taking time off, those are really good things, but they’re not sustainable if a person’s gonna jump right back onto the treadmill, you know? 

0:26:22

So a lot of times what people really appreciate is having specific tools for the specific type of burnout that they’re experiencing so that they can actually have the appropriate rest. If they’re discounting, like I said, going to bed early, and they actually are very emotionally and mentally burned out, that may or may not help because their sleep patterns are probably disrupted, so going to bed early’s not necessarily gonna support that, you know? So that’s one area.

I’d say the second is the accessibility of how easy the tools are and how much they work. I’m always surprised, too. As I’m doing the content creating, I’m always practicing these different tools that I offer people, and I’m always like wow, I feel better! This is amazing. It does take 60 seconds, you know, or whatever, but I really believe in keeping things accessible so that they can be sustainable. 

0:27:11

So those are the two areas I’d say. Just recognition that there’s more than one type of burnout, and the accessibility of the practices to help support the recovery process.

Amanda Testa: I’m wondering, too, if there’s anything that you have upcoming that you’re excited about or any programs or how people can connect with you to learn more.

Michelle Emmanuelle: Yeah, thank you for asking. I am really excited about the group coaching that I started. So I found that I wanted to offer something that’s a little bit more engaged for people long term, ‘cause the workshops are feeling like oh, that was great, and they need a little bit more. So I feel like the group coaching is such a great way to really support people in community and engage in the healing practices with others who are in a similar space and place. Studies have shown that, actually, I think it’s something like a 35% increase of results when people are in a community going through healing practices together. And so, the group coaching is just really something that I really enjoy just to help people to really connect with one another. 

0:28:11

It’s a built in accountability group, it’s a built in place for sharing challenges and celebrations with people who are also on the same page that you may be. So that’s something I’m pretty excited about. I’m also excited about the -- before, I was doing workshops that, basically, encapsulated all the different types of burnout in one workshop. So it’s just like the burnout recovery toolkit, here it is, all in one which is a very good overview, but I found that people are actually wanting some time to just focus on the specific burnout recovery for emotional and mental burnout. So I have specific types of burnout workshops for different categories and those are exciting to me too. People can actually find out more about those on my website which is called sustainablechangemaker.com. I’m sticking with the theme of that sustainability of practices.

0:29:06

Amanda Testa: Yeah, well I’ll make sure to share that in the show notes as well so everyone can connect with you and learn more about the amazing offerings that you have right now. I’d also love to know if maybe there was a question that you wished that I asked that I didn't ask or anything else that you want to make sure to speak to?

Michelle Emmanuelle: You know, one thing I feel that has been very powerful that I would like to reiterate is how burnout recovery really does support work culture. So many corporations and organizations are working through really trying to make sure that the people are being served and they’ve been including more diversity equity inclusion workshops and positions and trainings and mental health, which all are so important, and I really feel like those organizations and incorporations who have a people-centered culture can really benefit their employees by supporting them with burnout recovery because it’s win, win all of the way because it really does crate that increased engagement, retention, all the things that people are wanting in their culture -- buy-in, productivity, sense of meaning and purpose, creativity, and innovation -- all of these things are supported when the people are actually getting their needs met through the burnout recovery. 

0:30:24

It’s because of the burnout, typically, that the data of the mass exodus that’s happening right now is happening including the systemic issues. So the burnout recovery -- burnout due to the systemic issues is real, you know? There’s no such thing as micro when it comes to aggression. To our nervous system, aggression is aggression, period. And so, it’s important to recognize that there is a sense of purpose and opportunity for recovery. It is possible. I can’t tell you how many people I talk to, Amanda, who tell me that they used to work at a particular organization but they quit because of burnout. A lot of times people think that that’s the answer, that they’d have to quit, and it’s not the answer. It’s a definite solution, but burnout recovery is possible without actually having to leave one’s job. For some people who that may not be an option for, this is really good news, you know?

Amanda Testa: Yes, exactly. I mean, just having the option is, like you say, a solution, but it’s not always accessible. 

0:31:27

Knowing that there’s ways you can do it -- I’m wondering, too, if people are listening and they're like well, I need to send this to my boss or I need to tell my corporation about this -- that’s one of the things that Michelle does as well is she does work with corporations, so you can make sure to send her information along or pass it to the ones that can help on a bigger scale.

Michelle Emmanuelle: Absolutely. Yes, thank you for asking that question, Amanda, I really do feel like people are wanting to do better, you know, in their organizations and corporations. I really see that a lot across industries, and so, that’s why I reframe what burnout recovery can do because it really does support work culture, it really does help the culture to thrive. All of the things that these people are wanting and the leaders are wanting -- and also it’s important to have the buy-in from the leaders, you know? So there’s a burnout recovery toolkit simply just for leaders so that they recognize what burnout looks like in their staff, how they may be contributing to it, how they can prevent it. 

0:32:24

I think it’s so important that it’s modeled because a lot of times burnout is a top-down type of thing. In many organizations I’ve been seeing that.

Amanda Testa: Yeah.

Michelle Emmanuelle: I try to cover as many bases as I can, but definitely it’s something that I think is so beneficial for everyone because we’re human and we need it. [Laughs]

Amanda Testa: Yes. Thank you so much, Michelle. I so appreciate you being here, and I’m very excited for all that you're doing, and thank you for offering this burnout recovery, and sustainable ways to do it to actually make it easy.

Michelle Emmanuelle: Thank you, Amanda. I’m so honored for this time with you, and I appreciate the opportunity to share my work and share some examples of the practices, and I hope it helps people.

0:33:05

Amanda Testa: Yeah, and for everyone listening, too, I’ll make sure to put in the show notes where you can find Michelle and the website and all that good stuff as well. So thank you all for listening. We will see you soon!

Michelle Emmanuelle: Thank you!

[Fun, Empowering Music]

Amanda Testa: Thank you so much for listening to the Find Your Feminine Fire podcast. This is your host, Amanda Testa, and if you have felt a calling while listening to this podcast to take this work to a deeper level, this is your golden invitation. I invite you to reach out. You can contact me at amandatesta.com/activate, and we can have a heart-to-heart to discuss more about how this work can transform your life. You can also join us on Facebook in the Find Your Feminine Fire group, and if you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please share with your friends. 

Go to iTunes and give me a five-star rating and a rating and a raving review so I can connect with other amazing listeners like yourself. 

0:34:01

Thank you so much for being a part of the community.

[Fun, Empowering Music]